With the news Ally MacLeod is to be inducted into the AFC Hall of Fame it had me wondering where he would rank in a rating of our managers over the last 40 years of which there have been 14 full time managers.

 

I'm only a youthful 45 so don't remember Ally before being Scotland manager.

 

Of the 15 who'd be your top 3 and worst 3? I've obviously got a bit of time and ranked them all. 

 

Ally MacLeod 6

Billy McNeill 5

Alex Ferguson 1

Ian Porterfield 9

Alex Smith and Jocky Scott   3

Willie Miller 4

Roy Aitken         7

Alex Miller     13

Ebbe Skovdahl   10

Steve Paterson   12

Jimmy Calderwood 8

Mark McGhee   14

Craig Brown   11

Derek McInnes    2

1. Alex Ferguson

undisputed champion of the world

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2. Alex Smith and Jocky Scott

some brilliant football but the former forever tainted

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3. Billy McNeill

possibly underrated. Built a great nucleus

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4. Ally Macleod

personality and passion, "personality goes a long way" - Pulp Fiction

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5. Derek McInnes

gets a pass so far

 

 

The rest on that list can get to fuck. Great recruiting Stewrat Milne. Thanks.

 

 

 

Edit: I would have Eddie Turnbull as no. 3 of managers in my time if going back 50 years.

 

 

I'd have Porterfield, Alex Miller and Paterson at equal 13th. Never forgiven Porterfield for inflicting us with Gary Hackett, Tom Jones and Keith f@ckin Edwards. Only redeeming feature is he realised he was out of his depth and resigned relatively quickly, allowing Alex Smith (who I'd have at number 2 on that list) to halt the decline.

Alex Miller is the worst by miles. Not just his atrocious record, but the fact that we had 10 years of evidence of his disgusting style of fitba at hibs who played in our fucking league. At least McGhee, Brown, Paterson etc all had decent records. Miller's fitba was horrendous, I've never seen anything like it.

1.    Alex Ferguson 

2.    Billy McNeill

3.    Ally MacLeod

4.    Alex Smith and Jocky Scott

5.    Derek McInnes

6.    Craig Brown

7.    Jimmy Calderwood

8.    Willie Miller

9.    Roy Aitken

10.  Ebbe Skovdahl

11.  Ian Porterfield

12.  Steve Paterson

13.  Alex Miller

14.  Mark McGhee

 

 

Worst

Mark McGhee

Steve Paterson

Jimmy Calderwood 

Ebbe Skovdahl

 

Best

Alex Ferguson

Alex Smith and Jocky Scott

Willie Miller

McInnes (and if he wins a cup or 2 this season he'll leapfrog into 2nd)

 

 

Brown's job may not be remembered as particularly glamorous but he built a very solid foundation for DM to build.  I've met a few who disagree with this but no pa broon no reynolds or hayes or mcginn.  Reynolds may be a bit partchy now but Hayes and Mcginn?  I shudder to think where we would be without them.

Brown's job may not be remembered as particularly glamorous but he built a very solid foundation for DM to build.  I've met a few who disagree with this but no pa broon no reynolds or hayes or mcginn.  Reynolds may be a bit partchy now but Hayes and Mcginn?  I shudder to think where we would be without them.

 

Patchy!?! Lol that is being incredibly generous! He's been shite for at least two years. It was a massive coup getting him onboard, but as soon as ando left his form disappeared.  He's a liability now imo.

With the news Ally MacLeod is to be inducted into the AFC Hall of Fame it had me wondering where he would rank in a rating of our managers over the last 40 years of which there have been 14 full time managers.

 

I'm only a youthful 45 so don't remember Ally before being Scotland manager.

 

Of the 15 who'd be your top 3 and worst 3? I've obviously got a bit of time and ranked them all. 

 

Ally MacLeod 6

Billy McNeill 5

Alex Ferguson 1

Ian Porterfield 9

Alex Smith and Jocky Scott   3

Willie Miller 4

Roy Aitken         7

Alex Miller     13

Ebbe Skovdahl   10

Steve Paterson   12

Jimmy Calderwood 8

Mark McGhee   14

Craig Brown   11

Derek McInnes    2

 

I don't think you've given "Spit" McGhee a low enough number there.

I think i'm going to have to review Deeks lofty position at No.2 on my list after tonights disappointment.

 

What is the point in having a squad if you're not going to use it? 

1.    Alex Ferguson 

2.    Billy McNeill

3.    Ally MacLeod

4.    Alex Smith and Jocky Scott

5.    Derek McInnes

6.    Craig Brown

7.    Jimmy Calderwood

8.    Willie Miller

9.    Roy Aitken

10.  Ebbe Skovdahl

11.  Ian Porterfield

12.  Steve Paterson

13.  Alex Miller

14.  Mark McGhee

 

This ^^^.

Shame the cut-off point excludes Eddie Turnbull, IMO by some distance our greatest manager if you exclude Fergie.

I don't understand Ally MacLeod ahead of Jocky and Smiffy. The football played for the two years to May 1991 was arguably the best standard we've ever seen, a consistency of beauty that we had never seen before. It wasn't ruthless killing. It wasn't shut down the opposition. It wasn't bully the refs. It was beautiful football.

 

Turnbull was an excellent manager - and like Jocky and weirdo - failed to land the league but I'm putting him marginally behind the double act because of the artistry of the performances until that disgusting day 25 years and 5 months ago.

Ok, took my time to think this one through and here goes

 

Ally MacLeod 6  (thoroughly nice man and delivered a trophy)

Billy McNeill  3 (signed Strachan & Archibald and probably statred the good times rolling. Was pretty upset when he left)

Alex Ferguson  1 (on a different planet ot other contenders)

Ian Porterfield  10 (managed to fuck up a good squad)

Alex Smith and Jocky Scott    2

Willie Miller  5 (as has been said, early days had us playing great fitba)

Roy Aitken          8 (delivered a trophy, but fuck me, some of his signings )

Alex Miller      13  (would have been last, but Dingus just shades it for being a total cunt towards all things AFC)

Ebbe Skovdahl      11

Steve Paterson    12 (can probably remember more about his time in charge than he can )

Jimmy Calderwood  7  (initially brought back a degree of respectability)

Mark McGhee    14

Craig Brown    9 (McGinn, Hayes and made us more difficult to beat, but boring)

Derek McInnes    4 (potential to go higher)

I don't understand Ally MacLeod ahead of Jocky and Smiffy. The football played for the two years to May 1991 was arguably the best standard we've ever seen, a consistency of beauty that we had never seen before. It wasn't ruthless killing. It wasn't shut down the opposition. It wasn't bully the refs. It was beautiful football.

 

Turnbull was an excellent manager - and like Jocky and weirdo - failed to land the league but I'm putting him marginally behind the double act because of the artistry of the performances until that disgusting day 25 years and 5 months ago.

 

It's all about opinions but I wouldn't have Smith in my top 6.

 

Turnbull inherited a club that was a basket case.  With the league structure we have now we'd have been a mid-table Championship side.  We were drawing crowds under 4,000 for some matches.  He ruthlessly cleared out the dross, signed some excellent players and introduced modern tactics to the club at a time when most Scottish managers were still picking a 2/3/5 and telling the players to go out and enjoy themselves.  Admittedly he never got very close to the Lisbon Lions Celtic side, but that's a very tough yardstick, especially considering where we were coming from.  He laid the foundations for all the good stuff to come.

 

Smith OTOH inherited a club that was used to success and had an incredible pool of talent at it's disposal.  All we needed was fine-tuning.  Instead we got namby-pambyism.  In bringing in new players technical ability - especially the ability to pass the ball - valued above every other characteristic,  so that the need for pace, for physical presence, for ability in the air, for will to win and clinical finishing was completely disregarded.  We had too many great, self-motivated players for it to sink us straight away but gradually and inevitably we turned into a pretty team to watch that couldn't win matches.  Where we were in the league by the time Smith was deservedly sacked was a disgrace considering the quality of player he inherited.

 

Willie Miller, who was supposed to be learning the ropes from Smith, in fact knew he was mismanaging the side.  His first three signings - Aitken, Paatelainen and Shearer - were the opposite of Smith signings, all about bringing an injection of steel, will to win and clinical finishing.  As he said at the time, football is about more than just passing the ball. Unfortunately by that time the financially doped Murray era was fully underway at Mordor, and he couldn't close the gap with the type of player we could afford to bring to the club.

 

No surprise whatsoever that Smith's managerial career went into freefall as soon as he left the club, although he could be relied upon to pop up in the press fairly regularly to whine about how rottenly he was treated by Aberdeen.

 

1.    Alex Ferguson 

2.    Alex Smith, Jocky Scott

3.    Billy McNeil

4.    Derek McInnes

5.    Ally McLeod

6.    Jimmy Calderwood

7.    Willie Miller

8.    Ian Porterfield

9.    Roy Aitken

10.  Craig Brown

11.  Ebbe Skovdahl

12.  Steve Paterson

13.  Alex Miller

14.  Mark McGhee

Willie Miller, who was supposed to be learning the ropes from Smith, in fact knew he was mismanaging the side.  His first three signings - Aitken, Paatelainen and Shearer - were the opposite of Smith signings, all about bringing an injection of steel, will to win and clinical finishing.  As he said at the time, football is about more than just passing the ball. Unfortunately by that time the financially doped Murray era was fully underway at Mordor, and he couldn't close the gap with the type of player we could afford to bring to the club.

 

Tosh ^

 

Aitken was fucking hopeless, Miller then went onto to fill the squad with abject dross like John Inglis , Gary Smith, Paul Kane, Peter Hetherstone, Joe Miller, Colin Woodthorpe , Ray Mckinnon not a fucking winner between them. Dont try and tell that was money well spent. In effect he dismantled a free flowing excellent footballing side and turned them into hod carriers.

 

He also chased Gilhaus out of the club.

 

You are reading stuff into my post that isn't there.  My point was simply that even Miller couldn't miss that Smith had it all wrong.  That Miller went on to make his own, completely different, mistakes is not the issue.  I didn't think Aitken was a good signing either, and I don't rate Miller any higher than Smith as a manager, although he did manage a significant short term improvement that he couldn't sustain. 

 

Gillhaus had decided within months of signing for Aberdeen that he had come to the wrong little club in the wrong, parochial little backwater.  From that point he was counting the days to his move to a club befitting his sense of his own importance. Miller despised him no doubt: he was getting paid a lot more than club legends like himself and McLeish and not trying a leg half the time.  His departure from the club was inevitable and long overdue.

I was at the 5-0 St Johnstone fiasco on the day Gillhaus allegedly caused all hell breaking loose on the team bus down. ( no idea if the rumours were true I've heard from guys who swear its a million percent true and others who say its a pile of shyte). This was the game that cost us the title that year, not the final game of the season at Mordor, a 1-0 victory that day in Perth would have won us the league on goal difference.

What is certain is that Gillhaus that season had chucked it for whatever reason and yet Smith and Scott kept picking him instead of cutting their losses and selling him and getting a decent replacement in.

When Miller took over he punted him relatively quickly but I agree that his signings were the start of our long slow decline. Mckinnon, Kane, Winnie etc were just not in the class required despite fees being paid for them that 20 odd years later we can now only dream about.

Miller will always be God for his playing achievements but as a manager unfortunately he proved himself out of his depth. But if I'd known who his successors would be over the following 10 years I would gladly have given him a 10 year contract.

 

I was at the 5-0 St Johnstone fiasco on the day Gillhaus allegedly caused all hell breaking loose on the team bus down. ( no idea if the rumours were true I've heard from guys who swear its a million percent true and others who say its a pile of shyte). This was the game that cost us the title that year, not the final game of the season at Mordor, a 1-0 victory that day in Perth would have won us the league on goal difference.

What is certain is that Gillhaus that season had chucked it for whatever reason and yet Smith and Scott kept picking him instead of cutting their losses and selling him and getting a decent replacement in.

When Miller took over he punted him relatively quickly but I agree that his signings were the start of our long slow decline. Mckinnon, Kane, Winnie etc were just not in the class required despite fees being paid for them that 20 odd years later we can now only dream about.

Miller will always be God for his playing achievements but as a manager unfortunately he proved himself out of his depth. But if I'd known who his successors would be over the following 10 years I would gladly have given him a 10 year contract.

 

I was there that day at Muirton also. Used to have nightmares for years afterwards about it 

Regarding Gillhaus even if he hadn't decided tha he waned out within months of joining us, he certainly did once Nicholas left to rejoin The Victims and upon relfection we should have cashed in on him very soon after that as his heart clearly wasn't in it any more

I was there that day at Muirton also. Used to have nightmares for years afterwards about it 

Regarding Gillhaus even if he hadn't decided tha he waned out within months of joining us, he certainly did once Nicholas left to rejoin The Victims and upon relfection we should have cashed in on him very soon after that as his heart clearly wasn't in it any more

 

I was not there at the 5-0 but was there the same season for the 1-0 Booth late one on 13th Feb. I know the date because the wife's waters had broken on the Wednesday so I dropped her off at the hospital and drove to the game. It was a good judgement call as the bairn - our first didn't arrive until 1.24 a.m. on the Friday. He was naturally called Scott after the goalscorer.

 

It was MacDiarmid Park, the 90-91 season, not Muirton hole. It was the ONLY away game I missed that season, weirdly, although living in Glasgow and then Ayrshire at the time, away games were a lot easier to get to.

 

Unless I'm confusing it. The away game I missed was 5-0 or perhaps 5-1 at Perth and that was definitely 90/91.

I was not there at the 5-0 but was there the same season for the 1-0 Booth late one on 13th Feb. I know the date because the wife's waters had broken on the Wednesday so I dropped her off at the hospital and drove to the game. It was a good judgement call as the bairn - our first didn't arrive until 1.24 a.m. on the Friday. He was naturally called Scott after the goalscorer.

 

It was MacDiarmid Park, the 90-91 season, not Muirton hole. It was the ONLY away game I missed that season, weirdly, although living in Glasgow and then Ayrshire at the time, away games were a lot easier to get to.

 

Unless I'm confusing it. The away game I missed was 5-0 or perhaps 5-1 at Perth and that was definitely 90/91.

 

Aye min, I stand corrected it was McDiarmid Park not Muirton.The brains nae fit it used to be.

Think it was either their first or second season in the new ground, late September 1990. Sure it was nothing each at the time and Davie Robertson got send off and our arse collapsed.

It was indeed Mcdiarmid. Robertson got sent off at 1-0 down in around the 20th minute but he had been booked in the first minute IIRC and was steaming into challenges like a headless chicken, the world and his wife could see what was about to happen but Smith/Scott did f@ack all. Of course that was the day Mcleish supposedly "injured" himself in the warm up, though (again linked to the alleged Gillhaus incident) supposedly he told Jocky if Gillhaus got picked after what happened then he wisnae playing..

It's all about opinions but I wouldn't have Smith in my top 6.

 

Turnbull inherited a club that was a basket case.  With the league structure we have now we'd have been a mid-table Championship side.  We were drawing crowds under 4,000 for some matches.  He ruthlessly cleared out the dross, signed some excellent players and introduced modern tactics to the club at a time when most Scottish managers were still picking a 2/3/5 and telling the players to go out and enjoy themselves.  Admittedly he never got very close to the Lisbon Lions Celtic side, but that's a very tough yardstick, especially considering where we were coming from.  He laid the foundations for all the good stuff to come.

 

Smith OTOH inherited a club that was used to success and had an incredible pool of talent at it's disposal.  All we needed was fine-tuning.  Instead we got namby-pambyism.  In bringing in new players technical ability - especially the ability to pass the ball - valued above every other characteristic,  so that the need for pace, for physical presence, for ability in the air, for will to win and clinical finishing was completely disregarded.  We had too many great, self-motivated players for it to sink us straight away but gradually and inevitably we turned into a pretty team to watch that couldn't win matches.  Where we were in the league by the time Smith was deservedly sacked was a disgrace considering the quality of player he inherited.

 

Willie Miller, who was supposed to be learning the ropes from Smith, in fact knew he was mismanaging the side.  His first three signings - Aitken, Paatelainen and Shearer - were the opposite of Smith signings, all about bringing an injection of steel, will to win and clinical finishing.  As he said at the time, football is about more than just passing the ball. Unfortunately by that time the financially doped Murray era was fully underway at Mordor, and he couldn't close the gap with the type of player we could afford to bring to the club.

 

No surprise whatsoever that Smith's managerial career went into freefall as soon as he left the club, although he could be relied upon to pop up in the press fairly regularly to whine about how rottenly he was treated by Aberdeen.

 

Yes opinions are different from facts. I don't think we're too far away from consensus.

 

I was one of the unfortunate 3,200 at Ibrox in May 91. When the teams were announced before kick off, the gasps were audible and the incredulity tangible. That was the day Smiffy died, not just in my eyes.

 

I emigrated to Australia that summer so missed the freefall that was the start of the 91/92 season and was delighted to hear of his sacking and like all of us at the time, just expected Miller to walk us to glory, which he nearly did a couple of times despite him proving to be an inept man-manager in due course.

 

Even though weirdo Smith was credited as being our manager during his tenure, we all knew what a cracking job Jocky Scott was doing and so I'm happy to see the original poster express them as a double act. History since proved that Smiffy wasn't the good driver he thought he was, as you correctly stated and like an even worse balloon (of orange complexion and persuasion), never went on to anything remotely close to success post AFC and for many of us, totally expectedly.

 

The quality of the football was so good with Jim Bett pulling the strings and Davie Robertson in particular being at his very peak, the best LB we ever had, it was a wonderful period, particularly the last dozen games leading to that disaster at Ibrox, totally self-inflicted by the arsehole manager.

 

Turnbill did a great job. Henning Boel and Jim Hermiston were full backs who could play football. Bumper Graham and Joe Harper were crowd favourites. Davie Robb provided fire and passion. Martin Buchan was a class act. It was a great era but we never felt we were close to being the best in Scotland, even though we had become highly competitive. The team that Smiffy presided over and Jocky Scott kept the eye on WERE the best football team in the country and in my view, played some of the best stuff we have ever seen in terms of the beautiful game. Agree with all you said. Just ranked it differently for reasons stated above.

As an auld cnut  Fergie is No1 and Turnbull is No2. no one else apart from mibbe McNeill comes close and he wasn't here long enough to judge

 

ETA: Actually McLeod does come a close 3rd for 2 big reasons. He brought back King Joey and he made Willie Miller captain

As an auld cnut  Fergie is No1 and Turnbull is No2. no one else apart from mibbe McNeill comes close and he wasn't here long enough to judge

 

Actually you guys have convinced me to reassess.

 

Turnbull was indeed a better manager than Smiffy ever was. I was guilty of ranking the football, not the man. You're both right. Christ I never liked the man.

 

Even after the stunning 4-0 or 4-1 win away at the old Dunfermline ground (November 90) when Smiffy accompanied Jess (who was amazing) for his interview, whilst we thought at the time it was good management, looking out for the teenage prodigy, there was something creepy about him.

 

As a manager, no question, Smiffy was a fud. I've got it wrong by rating the football more than the man. Jocky Scott was a good man and the double act did produce awesome football but in a rating of managers, Smiffy is nowhere near good enough to sit that high up my table, whatever the contribution of Scott and despite how good the teams were.