The level of debate seems right up there with the Scottish Independence referendum and is quite frankly an embarrasment given the decision we are being asked to make.

 

It looks close to call - polls saying Brexit is a slight favourite, while bookies are saying the opposite.

 

How will you vote?

it would be interesting to find out here from all the 55'ers during the indi vote.

 

Is this the better together project fear put into you that you all voted with your heads with[/b]?

 

as a 45er i was utterly appaulded this morning seeing this on the wall years ago especially when the tories promised this referendum (plays into their hands to privatise the NHS england off) to the people. I really do hope our country just like last night all votes with their hearts next time and say enough is enough and vote for indepenance.

 

lol what does this even mean

 

If you were english voting in england last night, you'd have voted for brexit...

 

 

Excellent post. And I know exactly what you mean about the feelings of hypocrisy. I had the same thoughts. I'm generally keen to break down power structures like the UK and EU but I listened to what some politicians that I trust were saying and I also tried to think about it logically and it led me to vote remain. (I look forward to a fight to the death with Rocket)

 

There's no need to "fight". Argument and debate is good. It is important to clarify the positions however.

 

In the spirit of clarifying our positions in order to see if we have anything to "fight over", I agree with you.

 

I similarly believe that the best interests of the people will be served by "breaking down the power structures".

 

What I don't understand is the possibility of you trusting politicians. Which ones? Who are these politicians that you trust and what did they say that led you to vote remain?

 

And thinking "logically", please provide a brief example of how logic convinces you to remain?

 

Here's it summed up nicely.

 

http://johnpilger.com/articles/why-the-british-said-no-to-europe

 

Here's it summed up nicely.

 

http://johnpilger.com/articles/why-the-british-said-no-to-europe

 

It was indeed very well expressed, as usual and as always by Pilger.

 

What I don't get is the stupidity of the majority. It's not like they don't have access to the truth in this Internet age.

 

There was nothing new to you and I in that article, Rico, but some will refuse to complete reading it for reasons of ostrich-ness, not wanting to hear anything uncomfortable, some will read it in denial, not wanting to accept the uncomfortable truth whilst some will be openly hostile to Pilger's prose, refusing to believe his "lies" and "conspiracy theories".

 

Most of all however, their stupidity is a failure to accept that they themselves are so stupid and have been so stupid to have trusted the establishment and for swallowing their nefarious and multi duplicitous propaganda, just as their stupid ancestors did, knowing "their place" in an aristocratic system that always fed us lies.

 

Vanity is a deadly sin. They know they're stupid, those fuckwits who vote for Labour or Conservative. They just can't stand looking in the mirror to see how stupid they really are. They would rather deny truth than face up to the truth of their own stupidity. It was ever thus.

 

Edit: man that was a fucking brilliant post of mine.

 

Democracy as a concept never existed in the hands of the rulers. The Brexit ref gives us a chance to change the system but without vision, leaders of integrity and leadership, it can't change. Trump may not have the vision - "may not"?, he's one of the stupidest of them all - but at least he isn't part of the system.

 

This is why Corbyn will fail. He has vision and integrity but zero leadership ability.

I'm curious to hear what those who voted for Brexit think they're getting. Boris has been caught with his pants down here and is already softening his stance on many things that were promised during the campaign.

 

While many will have some very valid reasons for voting out, I've no doubt others are going to look like ignorant mugs when they don't get what the want with regards to the likes of immigration and NHS funding.

I'm curious to hear what those who voted for Brexit think they're getting. Boris has been caught with his pants down here and is already softening his stance on many things that were promised during the campaign.

 

While many will have some very valid reasons for voting out, I've no doubt others are going to look like ignorant mugs when they don't get what the want with regards to the likes of immigration and NHS funding.

 

I think you're missing the whole point. Again.

I think you're missing the whole point. Again.

 

Yep, it wasn't the point I was arguing. I had similar "debate" with a lass at work today, until it became apparent (to me) we were having two entirely separate arguments. Anyway, I'd compliment you on yer post above, but it seems you've beaten me to it.

Gove trumps Boris and beats him to announce his candicity for Tory leadership. Nice to see their United front !

Got to think Teresa May is surely a stick on to win this now.

The two main parties are in complete disarray. Agree though BigAl, can't see Teresa may, gove is a complete and utter arsehole. Tessa jowell was spouting lies and shite this morning on 5live. Sooner those blairite scumbags are exposed the better. I hope corbyn holds firm.

Gove trumps Boris and beats him to announce his candicity for Tory leadership. Nice to see their United front !

 

Boris not running.

 

Rupert Murdoch, King maker and puppet master of our next PM.

 

Aye murdoch must have film of the pair of them fucking pigs or something.

 

Also hope Corbyn holds firm, this has clearly been on the cards since his appointment.

Theresa is married to Philip May, the man who allegedly benefitted when G4 got awarded the biggest public sector security contract. His other "banking" appointments have had public sector connections.

 

Does anyone care? Has there been an abuse of power, a conflict of interest? Or is it sheer coincidence?

 

The same type of coincidence that led to Cameron's father-in-law being the biggest beneficiary of EU subsidies for wind farm technologies.

 

Does anyone look at the timings of when these familial connections became multi millionaires and check it back to when the monies starting getting dished out? We know Blair got his multi millions after he left office, due rewards for making his bosses get even richer but these two establishment bastard puppets, the outgoing PM and more than likely the next one are getting mega rich DURING office, through the other sides of their families and both through public money.

 

Where have the investigative journalists been? Rupert has been too busy with the used-up Texan, I fear.

 

It'll never happen, so get it right up you, you English facist bastards.

Aberdeen to be the worst hit apparently

 

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jul/27/aberdeen-brexit-worst-british-centre-for-citieis

Now we have England's plan (wish list) for leaving the EU.

 

Basically it's the same as it always was.

 

They want all the benefits without any of the responsibilitys.

 

 

Here's my plan for season 2017/18

 

We win the league by 30 points

Rangers finish bottom

Celtic lose the playoff ( with a last minute penalty which was blatantly a dive) and are relegated along with their ugly sister.