Crazy American Politics

[CurlsLikeTattie]

15 minutes ago, InversneckieDob said:

Christ....this fucking LUNACY has been normalised. 

Where the fuck is this going to end?

 

Still I'm sure the Florida boy will be along soon to tell us how the buses are running on time and everyone sits around platting daisies into each other's hair.

I think living in Florida, surrounded by republicans has an impact on perception - rightly or wrongly (I'm not going to judge someone despite not agreeing).

In contrast to the view out of Florida, I am just back from Colorado and California - both pretty blue slates. The general opinion from my colleagues there is the economy is teetering on the brink, the dollar is weak, borrowing is sky high, cost if living is still rising and unmanageable etc etc. 

There is also a real fear of the cabinet and the global damage they will do - particularly Hegseth. The guys a fuckin lunatic who should be nowhere near politics. There is a real appetite for Newsom amongst those I know and I would love that!

I lived in Denver from 2004-2008, then San Francisco from 2008-2010 (when Newsom was mayor), before 6 months in Portland, and I noticed a real difference whenever I go back to visit. I still love both cities and would move back tomorrow, but you can see how they have (perceivably) been negatively impacted by trump's terms. I also notice how the cost of groceries increases with every visit (this was also an issue under Biden). The eat or heat (or pay for medicine) seems worse now there than it is here.

I must follow this by saying myself and my colleagues are what those on the right would seem to be tree hugging woke liberals - and I am not ashamed to be labeled as that. But I won't criticise Orlando Don for his view as the situation is different for everyone - I just won't agree with it 

This illegal war has to be the final straw, something has to give. I love the place but feel it is in danger of sliding into proper division and carnage - Jan 6th x 100. It's a fuckin shit show

[InversneckieDob]

Fair comments.

I just can't fathom a level of.....tolerance if that's the right word...that allows acceptance of Trump's...'Trumpness' because of perceived or actual 'successes'.

[TheDonbytheDee]

21 minutes ago, InversneckieDob said:

Fair comments.

I just can't fathom a level of.....tolerance if that's the right word...that allows acceptance of Trump's...'Trumpness' because of perceived or actual 'successes'.

Same here.

I can't fathom why any sane, reasonably educated person could vote for the orange gimp and the mutants that make up his cabal of counts.

I don't even think we are near peak Trump yet. I still think there is worse to come.

I compare America now with what it must have been like in Nazi Germany.

 

 

[CurlsLikeTattie]

14 minutes ago, TheDonbytheDee said:

Same here.

I can't fathom why any sane, reasonably educated person could vote for the orange gimp and the mutants that make up his cabal of counts.

I don't even think we are near peak Trump yet. I still think there is worse to come.

I compare America now with what it must have been like in Nazi Germany.

 

 

I 100% agree on the voting for him point. It beggars belief for me. I understand people voting republican, or conservative here, (but will never agree with it) but cannot fathom how anyone with a shred of decency could bite Trump or Farage. I guess they have their reasons. I tend to avoid engaging in conversations (arguments) about it though as we will never change each others minds.

Before my last trip I was slightly worried about how the general atmosphere on the streets would be but didn't really notice any real difference on the surface. That said, another colleague live in Minneapolis. He's gay and an immigrant (but an acceptable white one) and he and his husband literally didn't leave their apartment for 3 weeks. The tension on the streets sounds truly (I'm a little loath to make this comparison) Nazi-esque. As a tourist I don't think you would see any difference, but there is a simmering tension under the surface.

I see snap shots on my visits, and get feedback from like-minded friends and colleagues, so I'm not really qualified to give full commentary. But the whole situation does really scare me.

But I'm a bit woke!

[OrlandoDon]

2 hours ago, CurlsLikeTattie said:

I think living in Florida, surrounded by republicans has an impact on perception - rightly or wrongly (I'm not going to judge someone despite not agreeing).

In contrast to the view out of Florida, I am just back from Colorado and California - both pretty blue slates. The general opinion from my colleagues there is the economy is teetering on the brink, the dollar is weak, borrowing is sky high, cost if living is still rising and unmanageable etc etc. 

There is also a real fear of the cabinet and the global damage they will do - particularly Hegseth. The guys a fuckin lunatic who should be nowhere near politics. There is a real appetite for Newsom amongst those I know and I would love that!

I lived in Denver from 2004-2008, then San Francisco from 2008-2010 (when Newsom was mayor), before 6 months in Portland, and I noticed a real difference whenever I go back to visit. I still love both cities and would move back tomorrow, but you can see how they have (perceivably) been negatively impacted by trump's terms. I also notice how the cost of groceries increases with every visit (this was also an issue under Biden). The eat or heat (or pay for medicine) seems worse now there than it is here.

I must follow this by saying myself and my colleagues are what those on the right would seem to be tree hugging woke liberals - and I am not ashamed to be labeled as that. But I won't criticise Orlando Don for his view as the situation is different for everyone - I just won't agree with it 

This illegal war has to be the final straw, something has to give. I love the place but feel it is in danger of sliding into proper division and carnage - Jan 6th x 100. It's a fuckin shit show

It’s funny how we see it so differently. To many, newsom has completely destroyed California. I lived there 17 years, horrendously expensive now, the average home price is close to 900k now, the taxes, gas is close to double the price of other states, the EV farce, the businesses and wealth leaving, the crime, extreme policy, the increasing debt, failure to deal with the homeless crisis, his (mis)handling of the fires, horrendous budget, the potential wealth tax, and not to reopen the debate, but his handling of COVID. I’d say it’s the bluest state in the country and he destroyed it. I used to say I lived in paradise but it’s certainly not any more. Obviously I’m not saying the country is by any means in a good place, but he scares the shit out of a lot of people. By all means a very good speaker, charming, and good looking, but, like trump, batshit crazy!

[Mason89]

Just out of interest, why did you escape to Florida? 

[CurlsLikeTattie]

13 minutes ago, Mason89 said:

Just out of interest, why did you escape to Florida? 

Good climate? Well, apart from risk of hurricanes.

It's a good state. Great wildlife (land, water and air), good art, fantastic national & state parks, good beaches, decent towns and cities.

Downside is Orlando has a problem with a 6 foot mouse!

[OrlandoDon]

34 minutes ago, Mason89 said:

Just out of interest, why did you escape to Florida? 

Multiple factors, not sure if you are genuinely asking or poking the bear and looking for another argument. But i think it’s worth sharing my experience as I don’t think many of you really get what it’s living like here.
It was getting so expensive in California. I was a teacher/administrator for 20 plus years, so not earning a ton of money. But enough. Budget just got tighter and tighter. Paycheck to paycheck. Started a family and when you are living in a condo complex (flats), and being California, our complex had pools. We started having the homeless bathing in the pools and washing clothes, peeping and shitting in the park, you’d find needles around, plus one of my kids fell in a homeless tent in the side walk while we were out for a bike ride. Crack smokers inside wanting a fight. The streets in the San Fernando valley/sherman oaks where I lived were starting to become lined with homeless tents and breaking bad RVs. Open propane tanks on the street, RVs hot wired to street lights. I was paying a fortune for a mortgage and a ton in property taxes and we felt it was becoming increasingly unsafe, especially at night and early morning walking our dogs…and we lived in sherman oaks, the town directly north of Beverly Hills and bel air. Local politics allowed all this. If you know California, or visit, go and see Venice beach and the surrounding area. Over run with tents and homeless, unsanitary and dirty, yet amongst multimillion dollar houses. At least it was when I left and my friends tell me it’s worse now.

Private school is liberal and political. I was always a democrat but things changed. I felt I was always middle of the road but the left became more left and my middle became middle right. Our school was aDEI school and it became political every single day. So much trump derangement daily in the faculty lounge, including grief councilors when he won in 2016. we were asked beliefs, told what to believe, and told what professions development to attend. No real freedom or choice to follow interests. I felt it became indoctrination instead of education. You couldn’t speak openly, freely, or express an opinion without fear of offending someone and consequence. I saw explosive confrontations in faculty meetings, nearly broke into fights a few times, and watched people fired for having an opinion that I felt was in no way inappropriate, just different and not the agenda, like gender spectrum and someone saying they believed in two genders as they and their religion believed. Everything was hyper sensitive and feelings, and it was highly toxic.

as you know, breaking point was Covid and losing my job. Couldn’t stay as covid vax became mandatory for kids at school, so my kids couldn’t go to school. Had to find a state that wasn’t like Cali, most blue ran states required the covid vax to go to school, Florida did not. I’d lived in Florida from 2002-2009, so had familiarity. It’s affordable. Plus we love beach and warm weather. We were extremely lucky to sell a house in LA that allowed us to buy a great house in affordable Florida for cash, have space and land, and had one year of money to live without spending our savings and time for my wife and I to find jobs. It was a no brainer. Politics doesn’t dominate the daily convo here, obviously a big factor is not working in education, and more people here just seem to try to get along, try to be positive, and live life with a more positive attitude. That’s my experience here anyway.

America is the land of opportunity. It was a great place that allowed you to work hard and excel, or certainly was as it’s a shit show now. feel like Cali and other states have lost plot, with significant over reach. My experience in Florida leaves you alone to live life and I really don’t pay much attention to politics any more .it cost me friendships, and witness fights where people just can’t get along. I’m not a trump fan but felt voting republican was more sane than voting democrat, said that here a few times. I’d witnessed that leadership first hand under Obama and felt the country declined, the obviously saw the decline in California. I feel Florida allows a safe and affordable upbringing for my ‘normal’ kids, there’s a ton to do, and sadly we see Mickey regularly. Obviously what’s happening now is not what was voted for, and as I have said before, it’s a two party system, no third party middle ground.

[Mason89]

Wow, that’s even more crackers than I was expecting. You’ve kind of detached yourself from your own reality. It’s genuinely fascinating to read but I suppose the main thing is that it works for you. 
 

 

[Mason89]

3 hours ago, InversneckieDob said:

Fair comments.

I just can't fathom a level of.....tolerance if that's the right word...that allows acceptance of Trump's...'Trumpness' because of perceived or actual 'successes'.

I think it’s cowardice more than tolerance. 

[OrlandoDon]

30 minutes ago, Mason89 said:

Wow, that’s even more crackers than I was expecting. You’ve kind of detached yourself from your own reality. It’s genuinely fascinating to read but I suppose the main thing is that it works for you. 
 

 

Always a pleasure with you. COYR!

[CurlsLikeTattie]

1 hour ago, OrlandoDon said:

Multiple factors, not sure if you are genuinely asking or poking the bear and looking for another argument. But i think it’s worth sharing my experience as I don’t think many of you really get what it’s living like here.
It was getting so expensive in California. I was a teacher/administrator for 20 plus years, so not earning a ton of money. But enough. Budget just got tighter and tighter. Paycheck to paycheck. Started a family and when you are living in a condo complex (flats), and being California, our complex had pools. We started having the homeless bathing in the pools and washing clothes, peeping and shitting in the park, you’d find needles around, plus one of my kids fell in a homeless tent in the side walk while we were out for a bike ride. Crack smokers inside wanting a fight. The streets in the San Fernando valley/sherman oaks where I lived were starting to become lined with homeless tents and breaking bad RVs. Open propane tanks on the street, RVs hot wired to street lights. I was paying a fortune for a mortgage and a ton in property taxes and we felt it was becoming increasingly unsafe, especially at night and early morning walking our dogs…and we lived in sherman oaks, the town directly north of Beverly Hills and bel air. Local politics allowed all this. If you know California, or visit, go and see Venice beach and the surrounding area. Over run with tents and homeless, unsanitary and dirty, yet amongst multimillion dollar houses. At least it was when I left and my friends tell me it’s worse now.

Private school is liberal and political. I was always a democrat but things changed. I felt I was always middle of the road but the left became more left and my middle became middle right. Our school was aDEI school and it became political every single day. So much trump derangement daily in the faculty lounge, including grief councilors when he won in 2016. we were asked beliefs, told what to believe, and told what professions development to attend. No real freedom or choice to follow interests. I felt it became indoctrination instead of education. You couldn’t speak openly, freely, or express an opinion without fear of offending someone and consequence. I saw explosive confrontations in faculty meetings, nearly broke into fights a few times, and watched people fired for having an opinion that I felt was in no way inappropriate, just different and not the agenda, like gender spectrum and someone saying they believed in two genders as they and their religion believed. Everything was hyper sensitive and feelings, and it was highly toxic.

as you know, breaking point was Covid and losing my job. Couldn’t stay as covid vax became mandatory for kids at school, so my kids couldn’t go to school. Had to find a state that wasn’t like Cali, most blue ran states required the covid vax to go to school, Florida did not. I’d lived in Florida from 2002-2009, so had familiarity. It’s affordable. Plus we love beach and warm weather. We were extremely lucky to sell a house in LA that allowed us to buy a great house in affordable Florida for cash, have space and land, and had one year of money to live without spending our savings and time for my wife and I to find jobs. It was a no brainer. Politics doesn’t dominate the daily convo here, obviously a big factor is not working in education, and more people here just seem to try to get along, try to be positive, and live life with a more positive attitude. That’s my experience here anyway.

America is the land of opportunity. It was a great place that allowed you to work hard and excel, or certainly was as it’s a shit show now. feel like Cali and other states have lost plot, with significant over reach. My experience in Florida leaves you alone to live life and I really don’t pay much attention to politics any more .it cost me friendships, and witness fights where people just can’t get along. I’m not a trump fan but felt voting republican was more sane than voting democrat, said that here a few times. I’d witnessed that leadership first hand under Obama and felt the country declined, the obviously saw the decline in California. I feel Florida allows a safe and affordable upbringing for my ‘normal’ kids, there’s a ton to do, and sadly we see Mickey regularly. Obviously what’s happening now is not what was voted for, and as I have said before, it’s a two party system, no third party middle ground.

Fuck me, that's a hell of a ride and I'm glad you've found yourself in place that works a lot better for you.

An example of why I am not too quick to judge based on limited information (especially where politics is involved) - our lives all throw up vastly different experiences from similar start points and lead to the different ways we all think.

As a great man once told me, "as long someone isn't being a cunt to others, respect their right to believe what they believe and go about their life in their way".

I draw the line at Trump, Farage, (nearly all) Huns and people masquerading as Bukta Bertie and any future names he pops up with!

[OrlandoDon]

1 hour ago, CurlsLikeTattie said:

Fuck me, that's a hell of a ride and I'm glad you've found yourself in place that works a lot better for you.

An example of why I am not too quick to judge based on limited information (especially where politics is involved) - our lives all throw up vastly different experiences from similar start points and lead to the different ways we all think.

As a great man once told me, "as long someone isn't being a cunt to others, respect their right to believe what they believe and go about their life in their way".

I draw the line at Trump, Farage, (nearly all) Huns and people masquerading as Bukta Bertie and any future names he pops up with!

To each their own, live your life and try to be happy. My sister died of cancer 4 years ago, we were close, a big factor in me moving and making certain decisions, and a big influence on how I now live my life today. She lived in Manchester and always wanted to move to north berwick. My grandparents retired there and we spent a lot of great times there as kids. But my sister waited too long, got cancer, had her doctors and treatment, and basically couldn’t move. We talked about that days before she died and how you just have to live life and take risks, do what’s best for your family because circumstances can change, dont wait. Be an ‘I can’ versus ‘I can’t.’ And there are plenty of circumstances you cannot change that keep that in mind.
That was a big factor in my wife and I doing what we did and starting life all over again in Florida. Plenty of people thought (and think) we were/are nuts and heavily judged us, but my family are happy and that’s all that matters to us.

LA is an extreme culture, I can’t fully relate to you guys in Britain as I ultimately haven’t lived there in 30 years, but I was in a situation getting shittier by the day and did something about it. I actually respect those who left the US because of trump. You can only control your own situation. No clue what it’s like at home, visiting doesn’t count, that’s a holiday romance versus a legit relationship, so I can’t judge any of you. I also lived in such extreme judgement and that if you are not with us you are 100% against, feel that a little bit here. 
similar but different, I gave Thelin more time than most, still support cormack, support lutz, and am now totally on board with Robinson. Life’s too short to be upset. Not my choice but here’s here, and excited for tomorrow. Also quite enjoyed some of the things he’s said and maybe our solution was staring us in the face from day one. I’m a glass is half full guy, onwards and upwards.
 

Edited 11 hours ago by OrlandoDon

[TheDonbytheDee]

10 hours ago, CurlsLikeTattie said:

I 100% agree on the voting for him point. It beggars belief for me. I understand people voting republican, or conservative here, (but will never agree with it) but cannot fathom how anyone with a shred of decency could bite Trump or Farage. I guess they have their reasons. I tend to avoid engaging in conversations (arguments) about it though as we will never change each others minds.

Before my last trip I was slightly worried about how the general atmosphere on the streets would be but didn't really notice any real difference on the surface. That said, another colleague live in Minneapolis. He's gay and an immigrant (but an acceptable white one) and he and his husband literally didn't leave their apartment for 3 weeks. The tension on the streets sounds truly (I'm a little loath to make this comparison) Nazi-esque. As a tourist I don't think you would see any difference, but there is a simmering tension under the surface.

I see snap shots on my visits, and get feedback from like-minded friends and colleagues, so I'm not really qualified to give full commentary. But the whole situation does really scare me.

But I'm a bit woke!

I'm classed as VERY woke, although I don't see myself as woke at all, but I suppose I must be.

I am likely worse than woke, as I am a proud left winger/commie, even though I come from a family of tories, of the Alf Garnett type. 

I am still known as that "militant bastard" amongst my siblings. 

I've all but gave up arguing politics now.

I could even say I've given up on politics, although my beliefs are still strong and never compromised.

The Nazi comparison might seem way off, but when you read the statements posted by Trump and listen to the press conferences by the likes of Hegseth, the comparisons are as clear as day to me.

The uniforms might be missing, but a lot of the ideology is there.

 

 

 

[Mason89]

41 minutes ago, TheDonbytheDee said:

The Nazi comparison might seem way off, but when you read the statements posted by Trump and listen to the press conferences by the likes of Hegseth, the comparisons are as clear as day to me.

The uniforms might be missing, but a lot of the ideology is there.

 

 

 

The main difference for me is competence. Not one of them is bright enough to be good at it. They are all, without exception, thick as fuck. 

Their supporters voted for them so they could arseholes, not poorer. It’ll all fall apart this year 
 

[RicoS321]

8 hours ago, Mason89 said:

Wow, that’s even more crackers than I was expecting. You’ve kind of detached yourself from your own reality. It’s genuinely fascinating to read but I suppose the main thing is that it works for you. 

I don't think that's fair, or an accurate reading of what was written. Just rudeness, and lacking in empathy. And arrogant as fuck, of course, assuming that you know more about a person's own experience than they do. Even if you assume that a small part of the post was embellished, it would be weird to assume it wasn't in some way informed by the rest of the it. 

In my opinion, Trump is a vulgar child who has the cognitive abilities of his predecessor, and should be stood down because of that. Voting for Gavin Newsom (or Vance, or whoever) as your answer? Isn't that equally as deluded? 

[Mason89]

15 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

I don't think that's fair, or an accurate reading of what was written. Just rudeness, and lacking in empathy. And arrogant as fuck, of course, assuming that you know more about a person's own experience than they do. Even if you assume that a small part of the post was embellished, it would be weird to assume it wasn't in some way informed by the rest of the it. 

In my opinion, Trump is a vulgar child who has the cognitive abilities of his predecessor, and should be stood down because of that. Voting for Gavin Newsom (or Vance, or whoever) as your answer? Isn't that equally as deluded? 

I don’t have much in the way of empathy for people who vote for a party that openly despises it. Sorry. There is other stuff in that post that is simply wrong & he likes to give off the impression he’s the only man who has ever been to the US, so you wouldn’t understand etc.  There’s the arrogance you’re looking for 

Where did I say I would vote for Newsom? Newsom is a grade A prick. 

I’m not falling out with anyone though and I’m not sure he needs anyone to wade in to fight his corner. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Mason89

[RicoS321]

3 minutes ago, Mason89 said:

I don’t have much in the way of empathy for people who vote for a party that openly despises it. Sorry. There is other stuff in that post that is simply wrong & he likes to give off the impression he’s the only man who has ever been to the US, so you wouldn’t understand etc.  There’s the arrogance you’re looking for 

Where did I say I would vote for Newsom? Newson is a grade A prick. 

I’m not falling out with anyone though and I’m not sure he needs anyone to wade in to fight his corner. 

I wasn't suggesting you would vote for Newsom or otherwise, just pointing out to those criticising (correctly) people for voting Trump, that it has to be couched to a large degree with the alternatives. 

I'm not fighting anyone's corner. I'm directly addressing you, and your rudeness as I see it. Responding to someone's perceived lack of empathy with what - ironically - appears to be bullying should be pointed out, which is what I was doing. 

[Mason89]

When a known sex offender, child rapist, minority hating, draft dodging, science denying, racist dipshit is on the ticket, the alternative is the alternative 

You can’t just make the case, well actually my taxes got higher under Biden and I dont understand what the word gender means and I refuse to buy a dictionary so I’m going to vote to make everyone’s lives harder and get a free pass for it. 
 

The title of this thread is crazy American politics. His views on American politics are crazy. That’s not bullying or rudeness. His decisions and the other 70m like him, fuck us all over 

[Mason89]

Some homeless people were using my pool - I mean, come on to fuck 

[TheDonbytheDee]

53 minutes ago, Mason89 said:

The main difference for me is competence. Not one of them is bright enough to be good at it. They are all, without exception, thick as fuck. 

Their supporters voted for them so they could arseholes, not poorer. It’ll all fall apart this year 
 

You don't need to be bright when in power. That's been proven over the years.

You keep telling us it is falling apart for him and I hope you are right, but I just don't see it happening anytime soon.

I don't think he actually does much, bar play golf anyway.

I reckon they have him in a cryogenic chamber and wheel him out on occasion to keep his acolytes on side.

Maybe the world would be a safer place if we just ban golf. 

It's not the game itself that's the problem, it's the smug upper classness of what I find in the majority of folk that play it. 

Apologise in advance for any upset my golf comments may cause to the forum golfers.

 

 

[RicoS321]

5 minutes ago, TheDonbytheDee said:

You don't need to be bright when in power. That's been proven over the years.

You keep telling us it is falling apart for him and I hope you are right, but I just don't see it happening anytime soon.

I don't think he actually does much, bar play golf anyway.

I reckon they have him in a cryogenic chamber and wheel him out on occasion to keep his acolytes on side.

Maybe the world would be a safer place if we just ban golf. 

It's not the game itself that's the problem, it's the smug upper classness of what I find in the majority of folk that play it. 

Apologise in advance for any upset my golf comments may cause to the forum golfers.

I think that misunderstands golf. Most golfers are liberal types. The ones that enforce the dress code rules are the Nouveau riche. The guys that have just "made it" and are keen to throw their new found power around. Those that have already made it know that they're not at risk from the new lackey, he does their bidding for them. In other words, golf is just a mirror of the way everything is run (including football). Trump is just the vulgar face that isn't meant to show itself. That he might be drawing the failed system towards its logical conclusion a little bit quicker than the "professional" type is largely irrelevant, it was always heading that way and it was always going to do so with a very heavy hit. He won't last, but the material reality of the situation most certainly will. It's what happens when you design a system that doesn't align with physics.

[Mason89]

I’m all for getting rid of golf. Horrendous for the environment and piss poor land use. Plus I’m shite at it.
We should throw Rugby Union in the bin as well while we’re at it. That’s where the golfers will gravitate towards after that’s gone. 

[RicoS321]

16 minutes ago, Mason89 said:

I’m all for getting rid of golf. Horrendous for the environment and piss poor land use. Plus I’m shite at it.
We should throw Rugby Union in the bin as well while we’re at it. That’s where the golfers will gravitate towards after that’s gone. 

Not everything is black and white though - Paul Lawrie sits near me at the fitba. 

[Mason89]

Paul Lawrie is a Saint. I’d allow him a pitch n putt in his front garden