??? Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Is McAllister nae playing at centre back these days, for Brizzle? Still a joke of a selection though. Better than Diamond though he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetchuck Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Think this thread pretty much backs up my point Sweetchuck http://www.thedandies.co.uk/messageboard/index.php?topic=7414.msg114138#msg114138 Call me cynical if you like, but I'm not going to start wetting my drawers in excitement at the prospect of Faroese and Northern Irish youth internationalists. Take away those 5 and we still have a very average spread of youth internationalists in SPL terms. It's also worth bearing in mind that only a few of these lads are actually regulars at international level: the rest are included as internationalists becaise they've been capped in the past, not because they're current regulars for their respective nations. If you applied that approach (ie. claiming that any player ever to have won a cap at any international level is worth shouting about), I'd be willing to bet that at least 75% of our first-team squad qualifies as 'internationalists' under such rules (mostly at U21 or B level). Doesn't mean we have a squad packed full of quality, though, does it? The club can bluster about quantity of youth players as much as it likes, but I could get you 20 San Marinese youth internationals signed up by the end of the week and still have change of a tenner. Quality is far more important than quantity, and doctoring the stats for youth internationalists at the club is a pretty shabby ploy to cover up the fact that our youth setup remains nothing more than desperately average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 H'min its all about opinions and how you choose to interpret things amigo. I can see your point ofview in this one, but your original point was that AFC's current crop of yongsters were mediocre in comparison to the league. All I've done is highlight just how many youth internationals we actually have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajja Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Have to agree with Sweetchuck here. In the absence of any other acceptable benchmark you have to take his analysis as the best we have and it doesn't point to much of an extraordinary youth squad. Despite the comment that its not about winning the league, if our youth teams are not winning regularly and comfortably then I am not inclined to expect great things from them. If its then all about individual stars then international squad selection should be a good enough measure as there are several qualified people who will oversee those decisions at different levels, its not all about Burley. I haven't heard anyone make a compelling case as an alternative to Sweetchucks view ? Just because the club comes out and says they have some really exciting youth players set to push through to the first team, doesn't mean they do. Week in week out Calderwood and several players come out and say all manner of things that do not transfer onto the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boboisared Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Have to agree with Sweetchuck here. In the absence of any other acceptable benchmark you have to take his analysis as the best we have and it doesn't point to much of an extraordinary youth squad. Despite the comment that its not about winning the league, if our youth teams are not winning regularly and comfortably then I am not inclined to expect great things from them. If its then all about individual stars then international squad selection should be a good enough measure as there are several qualified people who will oversee those decisions at different levels, its not all about Burley. I haven't heard anyone make a compelling case as an alternative to Sweetchucks view ? Just because the club comes out and says they have some really exciting youth players set to push through to the first team, doesn't mean they do. Week in week out Calderwood and several players come out and say all manner of things that do not transfer onto the park. Bagshaw was the captain and one of the so called star players for Scotland all the way through to 19's. He is now at Peterhead and would be playing Highland League if he didn't have ridiculous wage demands. This is the prime example for me as to why International honours at that age, as great as they are for the player at the time count for fuck all in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajja Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Bagshaw was the captain and one of the so called star players for Scotland all the way through to 19's. He is now at Peterhead and would be playing Highland League if he didn't have ridiculous wage demands. This is the prime example for me as to why International honours at that age, as great as they are for the player at the time count for fuck all in the long run. Laws of probability dictate that only a %age of youth internationalists will make it. You can be fairly certain that 99% of current international full squad players came through this system so there are also many many examples of players who have been successful as well as failed. Quoting an example of a failure or a success is not necessarily indicative of the system only proof that it sometimes works and it sometimes deosn't. You can keep knocking the idea that international recognition is an adequate benchmark by using exceptional examples but do you have a more effective yardstick ? I'm genuinely interested to hear a better way to conclude that our youth squad is better than average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boboisared Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Laws of probability dictate that only a %age of youth internationalists will make it. You can be fairly certain that 99% of current international full squad players came through this system so there are also many many examples of players who have been successful as well as failed. Quoting an example of a failure or a success is not necessarily indicative of the system only proof that it sometimes works and it sometimes deosn't. You can keep knocking the idea that international recognition is an adequate benchmark by using exceptional examples but do you have a more effective yardstick ? I'm genuinely interested to hear a better way to conclude that our youth squad is better than average. There are some people saying we believe the club when they say we have plenty youngsters that are good enough and others that don't. The true answer possibly lies somewhere in between? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajja Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 There are some people saying we believe the club when they say we have plenty youngsters that are good enough and others that don't. The true answer possibly lies somewhere in between? Fair enough mate I have argued that we should trust the management to decide when these guys are ready for the first team so I'd be a hypocrit if I then suggested they are not to be believed when they tell us how great they are. Still more inclined to take real evidence like call ups and league success but I'll accept your invitation onto the middle ground for now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jute Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Laws of probability dictate that only a %age of youth internationalists will make it. You can be fairly certain that 99% of current international full squad players came through this system so there are also many many examples of players who have been successful as well as failed. Quoting an example of a failure or a success is not necessarily indicative of the system only proof that it sometimes works and it sometimes deosn't. You can keep knocking the idea that international recognition is an adequate benchmark by using exceptional examples but do you have a more effective yardstick ? I'm genuinely interested to hear a better way to conclude that our youth squad is better than average. Only true measure is how many of them make the grade at SPL level or above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajja Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Only true measure is how many of them make the grade at SPL level or above. Fair enough but in order to scope whether that is going to happen (as this debate is trying to do) what benchmark do you use ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boboisared Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Fair enough mate I have argued that we should trust the management to decide when these guys are ready for the first team so I'd be a hypocrit if I then suggested they are not to be believed when they tell us how great they are. Still more inclined to take real evidence like call ups and league success but I'll accept your invitation onto the middle ground for now Hopefully, and i'm sure you agree here, i'm right in my judgement on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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