From what i can see we have two options.

 

I dont see miller giving the ok to sack his "man" so the most realistic option is to stick it out and go for third (which after this result should be a new priority) 4 games to go till the split and 3 of them away Think we need at least 7 points just to be in with a shout. Looking at the fixtures hearts and united dont have it easy either, unfortunatly motherwell and hibs are snapping at our heals which could put pressure on us - something we dont react well too. then there is next season, smith and seve aint getting any younger and they are on big bucks - they need to be offloaded no point in offering new deals need to cut loses and look for something else. We need to get a few younger, hungrier kids who actually want to play for the club. What we have just now is too inconsitant to ever be the 3rd force, too many needless changes. When we cut that out this season we actually looked like a decent team.

 

The other option is that calderwood walks and we are left with the dross we currently have if you look at our talented players we have.......aluko (inconsitant) miller (lacks motivation) and Diamond (makes too many mistakes) we have a good crop of youngstars in the under 18's who we cant afford to waste (looking at our current team in 2 years we are going to be fucked if we dont bring two maybe three players through) think we need to get a manager is willing to give these lads a chance. If it fails we are loosing nothing, but we cant go on like this, we need to rebuild again.

 

In my opinion the change is two years too late in coming (if it does come) but we have to look at two or three years down the line.

Think this thread pretty much backs up my point Sweetchuck

 

http://www.thedandies.co.uk/messageboard/index.php?topic=7414.msg114138#msg114138

 

Call me cynical if you like, but I'm not going to start wetting my drawers in excitement at the prospect of Faroese and Northern Irish youth internationalists. Take away those 5 and we still have a very average spread of youth internationalists in SPL terms.

 

It's also worth bearing in mind that only a few of these lads are actually regulars at international level: the rest are included as internationalists becaise they've been capped in the past, not because they're current regulars for their respective nations. If you applied that approach (ie. claiming that any player ever to have won a cap at any international level is worth shouting about), I'd be willing to bet that at least 75% of our first-team squad qualifies as 'internationalists' under such rules (mostly at U21 or B level). Doesn't mean we have a squad packed full of quality, though, does it?

 

The club can bluster about quantity of youth players as much as it likes, but I could get you 20 San Marinese youth internationals signed up by the end of the week and still have change of a tenner. Quality is far more important than quantity, and doctoring the stats for youth internationalists at the club is a pretty shabby ploy to cover up the fact that our youth setup remains nothing more than desperately average.

H'min its all about opinions and how you choose to interpret things amigo. I can see your point ofview in this one, but your original point was that AFC's current crop of yongsters were mediocre in comparison to the league. All I've done is highlight just how many youth internationals we actually have

Have to agree with Sweetchuck here. In the absence of any other acceptable benchmark you have to take his analysis as the best we have and it doesn't point to much of an extraordinary youth squad. Despite the comment that its not about winning the league, if our youth teams are not winning regularly and comfortably then I am not inclined to expect great things from them. If its then all about individual stars then international squad selection should be a good enough measure as there are several qualified people who will oversee those decisions at different levels, its not all about Burley.

 

I haven't heard anyone make a compelling case as an alternative to Sweetchucks view ? Just because the club comes out and says they have some really exciting youth players set to push through to the first team, doesn't mean they do. Week in week out Calderwood and several players come out and say all manner of things that do not transfer onto the park.

Have to agree with Sweetchuck here. In the absence of any other acceptable benchmark you have to take his analysis as the best we have and it doesn't point to much of an extraordinary youth squad. Despite the comment that its not about winning the league, if our youth teams are not winning regularly and comfortably then I am not inclined to expect great things from them. If its then all about individual stars then international squad selection should be a good enough measure as there are several qualified people who will oversee those decisions at different levels, its not all about Burley.

 

I haven't heard anyone make a compelling case as an alternative to Sweetchucks view ? Just because the club comes out and says they have some really exciting youth players set to push through to the first team, doesn't mean they do. Week in week out Calderwood and several players come out and say all manner of things that do not transfer onto the park.

Bagshaw was the captain and one of the so called star players for Scotland all the way through to 19's. He is now at Peterhead and would be playing Highland League if he didn't have ridiculous wage demands. This is the prime example for me as to why International honours at that age, as great as they are for the player at the time count for fuck all in the long run.

Bagshaw was the captain and one of the so called star players for Scotland all the way through to 19's. He is now at Peterhead and would be playing Highland League if he didn't have ridiculous wage demands. This is the prime example for me as to why International honours at that age, as great as they are for the player at the time count for fuck all in the long run.

 

Laws of probability dictate that only a %age of youth internationalists will make it. You can be fairly certain that 99% of current international full squad players came through this system so there are also many many examples of players who have been successful as well as failed. Quoting an example of a failure or a success is not necessarily indicative of the system only proof that it sometimes works and it sometimes deosn't.

 

You can keep knocking the idea that international recognition is an adequate benchmark by using exceptional examples but do you have a more effective yardstick ? I'm genuinely interested to hear a better way to conclude that our youth squad is better than average.

Laws of probability dictate that only a %age of youth internationalists will make it. You can be fairly certain that 99% of current international full squad players came through this system so there are also many many examples of players who have been successful as well as failed. Quoting an example of a failure or a success is not necessarily indicative of the system only proof that it sometimes works and it sometimes deosn't.

 

You can keep knocking the idea that international recognition is an adequate benchmark by using exceptional examples but do you have a more effective yardstick ? I'm genuinely interested to hear a better way to conclude that our youth squad is better than average.

There are some people saying we believe the club when they say we have plenty youngsters that are good enough and others that don't. The true answer possibly lies somewhere in between?

There are some people saying we believe the club when they say we have plenty youngsters that are good enough and others that don't. The true answer possibly lies somewhere in between?

 

Fair enough mate  I have argued that we should trust the management to decide when these guys are ready for the first team so I'd be a hypocrit if I then suggested they are not to be believed when they tell us how great they are. Still more inclined to take real evidence like call ups and league success but I'll accept your invitation onto the middle ground for now 

Laws of probability dictate that only a %age of youth internationalists will make it. You can be fairly certain that 99% of current international full squad players came through this system so there are also many many examples of players who have been successful as well as failed. Quoting an example of a failure or a success is not necessarily indicative of the system only proof that it sometimes works and it sometimes deosn't.

 

You can keep knocking the idea that international recognition is an adequate benchmark by using exceptional examples but do you have a more effective yardstick ? I'm genuinely interested to hear a better way to conclude that our youth squad is better than average.

 

Only true measure is how many of them make the grade at SPL level or above.

Only true measure is how many of them make the grade at SPL level or above.

 

Fair enough but in order to scope whether that is going to happen (as this debate is trying to do) what benchmark do you use ?

Fair enough mate  I have argued that we should trust the management to decide when these guys are ready for the first team so I'd be a hypocrit if I then suggested they are not to be believed when they tell us how great they are. Still more inclined to take real evidence like call ups and league success but I'll accept your invitation onto the middle ground for now 

Hopefully, and i'm sure you agree here, i'm right in my judgement on this one.