Fucks sake Manc. 

 

Never not a notable fixture on the calender but this is a very big game for both teams given recent form. Neither of us can afford to lose this one and a draw isn't too much use either. Hopefully some solid time on the training pitch will have done our fledgling squad the world of good because we have a hectic schedule with 7 fixtures in the next 21 days.  

 

I've absolutely no idea how we will line for this one so I'm not going to predict a score or result but I'm expecting Hearts to be well up for it so we will need to be too. 

 

32 minutes ago, Panda said:

Not that I'm tipping us to win, but it wouldn't surprise me if we put in a credible performance in Frankfurt because the way we're set up under Robson is suited to playing a team likely to dominate possession. It's when you give us the ball we embarrass ourselves.

We'll press them, hound them, the likes of Duk will find space to run on the counter. Be a bit like the Celtic game which was our best performance of the season.

Frankfurt would be better just letting us have the ball, laugh as we try and pass it at 100mph, make mistakes, and then just pick us off.

A pint of what you’re having please. 

I'm glad I didn't catch any of this one. An away loss at tynecastle isn't the worst result, but I suspect there is a lot more to it, as has been the case in every game so far this season. 

This season was always going to be a bit pot luck with the signings, but I assumed Robson would at least give himself a fighting chance. He doesn't appear to be doing that. There seems to be, once again, structural and strategic issues. I assumed recruitment was a joint thing. To me that means people raising serious questions. That's asking what our plan b is, and if we've got players that can play in those roles. We start with a 3-5-2, for which we have a completely unsuitable midfield. We finish with a 4-3-3 with an unsuitable front line. Are we just buying players and not players for positions? Does Robson think a midfielder is just a midfielder and a forward just a forward and that there's no nuance between roles? I assumed he'd have taken stock in the international break and accepted that the players in the squad aren't the required fit for what he's asking and we'd see a plan C. I don't see how we turn it around without a change in strategy. I don't see how Robson can't spot this.

5 hours ago, Panda said:

Not that I'm tipping us to win, but it wouldn't surprise me if we put in a credible performance in Frankfurt because the way we're set up under Robson is suited to playing a team likely to dominate possession. It's when you give us the ball we embarrass ourselves.

We'll press them, hound them, the likes of Duk will find space to run on the counter. Be a bit like the Celtic game which was our best performance of the season.

Frankfurt would be better just letting us have the ball, laugh as we try and pass it at 100mph, make mistakes, and then just pick us off.

Agree with this.  The obvious problem with building to this style of play is that 70% of our games (the 30% being Gruesome Twosome, sometimes Edinburgh GT wannabees & Europe), we will have the majority of possession and won't be in a position to play counter attacking football.

Putting all our eggs in the Teklic basket looks like it is going to kill our domestic season, because there is no-one else showing so far that they have the nous or ability to create anything.  Clarkson is watching the ball sail over his head.  I've no idea what McGrath is meant to be offering.  And Shinnie's headless chicken act is exactly that without the Ramadani anchor giving the protection to make that workable.  Barron at least looked to play simple passes and keep the ball with a Dons shirt.  Start there and stop the Hollywood 50 yarders (into touch).  If we're playing Rubezic (and I don't think he's a lost cause yet), give him Barron or Devlin to pass short to - every time.  Jensen is not a left back, so let's not kid ourselves that is an option.

Only positive from today was that Gartenmann looks like he can actually play this game - just need some of the rest of them to help him out.

Edited September 17, 20232 yr by KWT15

If you haven't watched last night's Sportscene, then at 6pm there's a snippet of it going up on the BBC social media that shows how alarming our long ball strategy was yesterday.

11 hours ago, KWT15 said:

Agree with this.  The obvious problem with building to this style of play is that 70% of our games (the 30% being Gruesome Twosome, sometimes Edinburgh GT wannabees & Europe), we will have the majority of possession and won't be in a position to play counter attacking football.

Putting all our eggs in the Teklic basket looks like it is going to kill our domestic season, because there is no-one else showing so far that they have the nous or ability to create anything.  Clarkson is watching the ball sail over his head.  I've no idea what McGrath is meant to be offering.  And Shinnie's headless chicken act is exactly that without the Ramadani anchor giving the protection to make that workable.  Barron at least looked to play simple passes and keep the ball with a Dons shirt.  Start there and stop the Hollywood 50 yarders (into touch).  If we're playing Rubezic (and I don't think he's a lost cause yet), give him Barron or Devlin to pass short to - every time.  Jensen is not a left back, so let's not kid ourselves that is an option.

Only positive from today was that Gartenmann looks like he can actually play this game - just need some of the rest of them to help him out.

I don’t think it’s anything to do with teklic. I don’t think we became a poor defensive team and a long ball team because we didn’t sign him. Many questions around tactics or lack of, more than one transfer. Yes, we really miss Rama but it’s bigger than that, plus I don’t think teklic was a Rama type player anyway. 
my concern is that the squad has been clearly built for 3-5-2 and specific players. Plan b with a formation and personnel change is seriously flawed. I’ll take it a step further and question whether we should be relying on players like morris, polvara, and Duncan to make significant impact, yet they are being required to do so.

lastly, what’s the deal with Macdonald? Back on the bench yesterday. He didn’t become shit over night but surely needs games to get up to speed and help build defensive cohesion. Or is there something else??

16 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

Does Robson think a midfielder is just a midfielder and a forward just a forward and that there's no nuance between roles? 

Come on Rico, Robson was an international midfielder himself and a pretty cultured one at that, give him a bit of credit. He knows much more about it than you could ever hope to know. It’s not working for him yet but we have only played five league games. Give the guy a break.

5 hours ago, Panda said:

If you haven't watched last night's Sportscene, then at 6pm there's a snippet of it going up on the BBC social media that shows how alarming our long ball strategy was yesterday.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/66836361
 

Here. Same tactics Robson used the last time we were at Tynecastle too.

2 hours ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

Come on Rico, Robson was an international midfielder himself and a pretty cultured one at that, give him a bit of credit. He knows much more about it than you could ever hope to know. It’s not working for him yet but we have only played five league games. Give the guy a break.

I'm aware of that, that's why I'm wondering why he's making such basic errors? There are plenty of very good footballers who don't actually understand tactics and struggle to articulate and pass on what it was that made them good. We'll not know, because nobody actually asks managers pertinent tactical questions, deciding instead to focus on gossip and speculation. For what its worth, I believe Robson does understand, as evidenced by him immediately switching Ramadani's role and making Clarkson a number six with an emphasis on playing it forward quickly for the runs of Miovski. It's completely inexplicable that he's continuing to try the same tactic without Ramadani there, trying to force McGrath to play a game he can't, putting huge physical pressure on Shinnie and expecting Barron to do the same role that Clarkson is failing in this season (because Ramadani isn't there). He seems, without evidence, to believe that by continuing to do the same thing, the players will somehow learn physical attributes that they don't have. The change to a 4-3-3 was also ridiculous as that, too, doesn't play to the strengths of our midfield and appears to be a tactic designed to allow all our number nines to get game time, rather than to play to their abilities. 

It's not up to me to give Robson a break, he's heading towards what could be the end of his management career before it has even started (see Glass). I would hate to see that. It has nothing to do with number of games either, he's not correcting rudimentary errors and hasn't recognised that the key to his 3-5-2 success is missing. Really, really simple stuff that we (including Robson) watched Goodwin get wrong throughout his tenure. Most of my criticism still lies with the club though. Robson is a young manager who may just be too close to things to gain perspective (a bit like a 100mph young midfielder learning their trade). I think he's said himself that he needs people that can come in and challenge him, and it's unforgivable - given the events of the last few seasons - that that doesn't exist. We've got an entire recruitment team looking for players for a 3-5-2, and seemingly nobody sought to question why McGrath was being brought in to replace Ramadani (I made the stupid assumption that the scouts had seen enough of him to suggest he could be converted), nobody thought to ask him what plans B and C were and if having four midfielders with the same deficiency, and three strikers that play a remarkably similar role was a good strategy. Once again, we seem to be letting a manager hang himself out to dry without anyone at the club asking the basic questions (I believe Robson would happily accept challenge and advice). If we're going for the inexperienced Robson (and I still think we should), then we need somebody to manage the manager. A devil's advocate reading back every move he makes and forces him to stop, think and understand everything he's doing. It's fairly clear that's not happening. The errors he is making are of his own doing and he's not being helped. If I was to adopt your stance of saying "give him time", "only five games", it would be to ignore all the warning signs (big, massive alarm bells). It isn't a time based issue, he could keep doing what he's doing for years and have zero success.

54 minutes ago, Panda said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/66836361
 

Here. Same tactics Robson used the last time we were at Tynecastle too.

Yes, it was. What was key about that match? Shinnie was missing. In order for Clarkson to play his direct, quick passing he needs the left to right space. That requires the two Flood-like midfielders doing their thing. Breaking up play, being first to everything and feeding off the second balls from the direct punts. Just as Barron couldn't be that second Flood in the last game, McGrath couldn't be yesterday (and neither can Polvara). We're banging our heads against a brick wall though, and it seems that nobody at the club is asking the fucking obvious. 

On 18/09/2023 at 06:49, RicoS321 said:

If we're going for the inexperienced Robson (and I still think we should), then we need somebody to manage the manager. A devil's advocate reading back every move he makes and forces him to stop, think and understand everything he's doing. It's fairly clear that's not happening. The errors he is making are of his own doing and he's not being helped.

Isn't that why we brought in Steve Agnew? The old wise head to help guide the inexperienced-but-passionate Robson? 

5 hours ago, Reekie_Red said:

Isn't that why we brought in Steve Agnew? The old wise head to help guide the inexperienced-but-passionate Robson? 

I don't know. If we did, it isn't working. I think that, for most clubs, there are probably two roles there. Agnew will be the guy that offers something different to the players, so that they're not bombarded with 100% Robson. Whether that be by being a more reasonable guy, or the Knox role of being a bigger mental case. What I'm talking about is someone that sits above (and a step back from) Robson and the recruitment team and challenges the decisions that the management in those areas are making, whilst leaving them the autonomy to dig their own grave as it were. It doesn't need to be a football person, and it could even be a committee of persons. It has to be non partisan and can't be someone like Cormack, and it has to be someone in daily contact with the business (so not the FMB!). Their role should be to ask questions of Robson as if they were a layperson to make him think harder about what he's doing with the team (and the same for the recruitment guys). At the moment, for me, that would focus very much on our midfield. A break down on what each player is expected to be doing, whether they can do the role being asked and what was different previously that allowed it to work. Anyone with a young child knows that there are certain things that you just do without questioning yourself and it's only when they ask you why you're doing it and you can't explain that you realise you're doing something wrong or unnecessary. I'd be intrigued to hear Robson's description to the five year old (or layperson) of what his reasons are behind our current setup, or answers to the questions above. It feels like he's stuck in a mindset and won't budge, and that when he does budge it will be random and reactive rather than a calculated plan (see the 4-3-3), which will only be successful by luck.

On 16/09/2023 at 22:41, Panda said:

Not that I'm tipping us to win, but it wouldn't surprise me if we put in a credible performance in Frankfurt because the way we're set up under Robson is suited to playing a team likely to dominate possession. It's when you give us the ball we embarrass ourselves.

We'll press them, hound them, the likes of Duk will find space to run on the counter. Be a bit like the Celtic game which was our best performance of the season.

 

On 16/09/2023 at 23:14, Jute said:

A pint of what you’re having please. 

👍 😉