Ajja

"Apparent sudden brilliance" as defined by the "better than fuck all" index.

The very same.

It's not as simple as that though.  If two thirds of the league are in a relegation battle then crowds might be less than for matches in a larger league with the prospect of more open games.  Less chance of teams parking the bus at Pittodrie in a larger league IMHO.

 

At the end of the day, there are too many unknowns.

I think it is though, unfortunately. Protecting income is the primary decision making criteria at present.

Surely relegation battles bring larger crowds, not smaller ones. Its the dead rubbers, which increase in a 16 team league, that are the real crowd drainers.

Is everyone remembering that we are not paying either players wages ?

I suspect that it is not a balanced deal under those terms and as is always the case with the OF, they are likely in control.

Although we are not being able to benefit from Fosters apparent sudden brilliance on the park, we have his wage off the bill and Velicka is free.

If they go back to a 10 team league I will give up and never go to another game. Fucking pointless, didn't fucking work in '76 (i remember) nae gonna work now. :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

 

Needs a "senior division 1" of 16 or 18, one "senior division 2" of probably 14. That's 30/32 "senior" teams, probably enough, probably sustainable.

 

Below that, some sort of pyramid structure....Elgin, Peterheid et al may not like it, but split them into HFL, East of Scotland, Souuth of Scotland, and allow the best of the juniors in as well, with some sort of "superleague" between the top 2 from each.

 

Realise we may struggle initially to have 18 competitive teams in the top league, and probably lots of humpings handed out by the of, but make sure it's "untouchable" for a minimum of 7 years. Sponsorship money and TV money split purely on a positional basis (i.e 1st place gets most, 2nd next most etc...) BUT EVERY team in the top 2 leagues gets a guaranteed income of some figure to be set (shortfall to be made up by the government (or the fucking Queen if sport is that important!)).

 

Gradually bring in a wage cap based on AVERAGE turn over of ALL TOP LEAGUE TEAMS (plus maybe allowed one player to be exempt) means the of actually have an interest in the rest of the league being solvent.

 

Dunno how to do it, but we also need to bring down the cost of going to games.

Sigh....

Let's say for arguments sake that a normal home game represents £50K and an OF home game represents £75K for every club in the league (I know figures vary but in terms of a measurable benchmark or index).

10 teams = 18 home games inc 4 home games with OF

(14x£50,000 = £700,000 + 4x£75,000 = £300,000 = £1.0m revenue)

16 teams = 15 home games inc 2 home games with OF

(13x£50,000 = £650,000 + 2x£75,000 = £150,000 = £800K revenue)

20% reduction in revenue. Arguments about competition, boring football as a result of 4 games a season etc etc etc mean nothing when facing such a drop in revenue.

Were you not a maths teacher once ?

The game will go ahead an udder day

Is there a plan for who will replace him and guarantee our debt?

Facebook is not for planning, it's for nonsense and attention seeking.

It's the classic authority without responsibility horseshit that seems to plague British society these days.

The pitch must be in an offal state, I herd it's Friesian in Hamilton.

From the highlights and some of the live stream I watched (not much to form an opinion I know but I never let a lack of facts get in the way of my opinions!) we looked like we were more interested in the game which is a good starting point. I thought we looked pretty shaky at times and Hibs could have scored as often as us in terms of clear cut chances. It could easily have been 5-5.

This team are not going to suddenly start playing great football and fundamental problems with the club aren't going be changed over night. The key thing for us just now is to build a little bit of confidence and get some points on the board. Nothing else should be thought about right now. We have the chance to reel in a few teams above us over the coming weeks and we have to take it. 7th is easily achievable.

If we could afford him in the team he might well provide a few opportunities for other strikers if he can unsettle defenders and win crucial balls. He looks like he has a lot of work to do on his finishing, those two chances were there for the taking and he made an absolute cunt of them both.

I cud see this being the cattle-yst for a run of victories.

My dad was behind him at the till at tesco last Sunday and was saying he struggled to balance without his crutches so a miracle must of happened in the past few day that he's going to be back so soon

Sounds like his approach to most penalty box opportunities so he might be closer to a return than you think.

Good news for lad. Hopefully we can get him fit before the end of window and move him on.

My thoughts exactly. Maybe the club are rushing him back to make sure he is in the window in January.

He's still in midfield, sitting in front of the defence.

 

Both Severin and Keane played as out and out centre backs more than sweeper.  I would worry that Hartley as last man just wouldn't have the legs to dig us out the hole sweeper's should be digging their team out of.

Sorry, my thinking had moved on a notch during that post. I had meant Hartley taking on a role as an out and out CB in a back 5, not a sweeper....just to clarify.

No.

 

You would hope so, but nope.

 

It's mostly because he's pureranjursbyrawaybigman, especially now he's pulled on the blue.

 

Or some such shit.

I've tried my damnest to by-pass that puerile and Neanderthal debate to be honest so you might be right.

So whats your excuse for the rest of the season. 

I only get out of bed when there is a semi on the go 

Having only seen the Dons twice this season, both times we won, I haven't really any idea what formations we are playing at present. Does Hartley occupy a kind of sweeper role like he did at Celtic in his latter period there (I think) or does he just play a deep midfield role ? If we are going to play a 5 man back line would Hartley be better in there as the composed head ? Just a thought, Severin seemed to take to that role quite well and I'm sure Roy Keane played there in his later years.

Foster is a win-win situation for Aberdeen.

 

Either we get money for him or we get back a versatile right back on our books for nothing.

 

I don't see why anyone should not feel pleased about that.

I suspect it's the amount of money we might get that is being debated as the loss here.

Well only themselves to blame.  Why suddenly ask for a change now?  In fact why do the SPL even insist on having games on the 1st, especially in a year where the 1st-4th are fucking holidays?

 

Ach well, suspect I'll end up lying on the sofa trying to sleep off a hangover while being further tortured by our performance and Scott Davies commentary.

Possibly struggling to sell hospitality packages on the 1st and only just getting feedback that the date is a problem ? Arranging games on the 1st is not ideal but in past years they were traditionally very well attended as fans were keen to get out the house, same went for boxing day games. Possibly cultural shifts have now put an end to that and the SPL are still playing catch up. Sofalising for me that day too. For the record, I think we will give them a thumping that day. Just a sense I have.

Re: Foster. When you are 19 you have a shot at riding 19 year old girls. When you are 55, you don't, unless you've got deep fucking pockets.

 

I know I was being naive Ajja, but if they could understand/have the foresight to see that reverting to an old model which was broken and tiresome, will only alienate and infuriate the consumer even further. I think deep down as much as we hate it, we all know what they, the money men, are going to do about the situation, despite pressure from the media, clubs, pundits and fans. I can understand why, but at the end of the day, they need to remember that they also rely on us for their "businesses" to keep going.

 

Wasn't my intention to suggest that mate, I always respect your view. I actually agree with you and find it equally as frustrating that business always trumps football.

I appreciate this post Ajja.

 

I certainly don't disagree with what you have said here.

 

I was only giving my opinion on what measures I would go to whilst having no power or responsibility to make sure it can work.

 

If forced to pick a couple of things I wouldn't back down on from my post and which I feel can be implemented even next season is the free tickets for Primary school children and the return of the reserve league.

 

Also slightly controversial but I'd be behind the club offering season tickets at a discounted price for under privelleged people also.

I'm sure there are many things that can be done to improve the product on the field. Likewise there are many incentives that can be used off field to attract customers to purchase the product. Again they would all have to be looked at in the context of costs versus income but your suggestions make a lot of sense.

I can never understand why we don't just give tickets away to kids on a regular basis, the seats are empty otherwise. Easyjet built a successful model around the premise that you might as well sell the seat for 1p if its going to leave empty. At least then it gets people used to the idea that flying is the norm. Now they can charge £30 and people have become used to using their product so they pay it.

The season ticket one is interesting, did the club not make a real mess of the student concession or did I pick that up wrongly. It would potentially attract interest but not sure it would drive significant numbers. Season tickets in general are a difficult issue for clubs as they are committed income which is very valuable but they also make it very difficult for the club to run any promotions without upsetting those who have made that up front commitment.

One thing for sure is that Aberdeen FC are going to have to get very innovative in the coming seasons. They can't rely on the authorities to deliver a more viable product on the field through restructuring as it will serve a different agenda. As I've said already, the quality of the football is not the key decision making criteria. Its just about business survival.

Ajja, surely it has to come to a point though, where the interest in the game takes such a hit that it doesn't even make financial sense to go down to a 10 team league? If it goes back to that, fans will continue to give up and look further afield to find their saturday entertainment. I know the current figures will probably back their view the reduction, but the interest in the professional game in Scotland is dwindling, I honestly don't think the boards are aware of how severe the situation is.

For the record, in footballing terms I am in favour of a 16 team league not a 10 team league.

The problem here is that clubs have to balance up the risks associated with any decision. The risk you have highlighted that the product becomes more stagnant and therefor less desirable is a significant one. That said, it's a risk that may not come to fruition, it's speculative and however likely it might be its not guaranteed.

However, to take a decision that effectively writes off the income for 2 full home games, as well as 2 home game against the OF has an immediate and guaranteed impact on revenue. This, in a climate of austerity and already reducing income streams is just too difficult a decision to make for any business.

Personally, I would rather see the game invest in a more compelling and balanced product. To 'take the pain' as Bobo suggests for the benefit of the future. I would love to see a fundamental reshape of Scottish football so that those two disgusting and vile organisations that drag the game through the mire while bleeding it dry of all resource are forced to play on a level playing field. Unfortunately, it just isn't going to happen as long as the people who are trying to make economic sense of a business model are the decision makers. It just doesn't work I'm afraid.

If I had my way the changes I'd make:

 

• Expand to 16, playing each team twice. Split of top 8 and bottom 6. Gives teams extra incentive to try and break in to the top positions for the extra games.
  
• I like the idea of one lower division followed by regionalised leagues below this. Shorter travelling distances for clubs to save money and the chance of larger supports at games for local rivals.
   
  
• Promotion to the top league automatically for one team plus a second vs. fifteenth one off match at a neutral venue to decide the sixteenth spot for the following season
   
  
• TV money split equally between all 16 teams.
   
  
• Games to be graded on calibre of opposition, set at start of the season. E.g - Grade A - Old Firm, Hearts - £22. Grade B - Hibs, Dundee Utd, Motherwell - £20. Down to Grade D and £15. For the matches excluding the Old Firm free tickets to be issued to Primary school children (who will be accompanied by teachers or football team managers) to try and develop more fans at a young age rather than have them supporting the teams they see most often on tv.
   
  
• Re-introduction of the reserve league. It's asking a lot for young players to go straight from the 19's to playing at the top level immediately.
   
  
• If possible grants from the football association (one association to govern the whole lot) for the teams in the regionalised leagues to get their youth set up in order.
   
  
• Full time referees with demotion and promotion dependant on performances.
   
  
• Wages to be no higher than an agreed % of a teams turnover.
  

 

I've probably missed out some of what I want to say there and don't expect many to agree. It's also partly a re hash of other peoples suggestions I've heard.

Its quite simple and Milne is correct in his position. Your heart is ruling your head if you think otherwise.

I'm afraid what you, or any other fan, 'want' is not going to hold any store. We cannot vote to reduce our revenues. End of story.

Craig Brown poo poos this in the EE this lunchtime.

Hopefully just means he wants to keep a lid on it. Poo poos can often be a good thing, if you get me.

Any idea about tickets yet?

Someone quoting prices on Abmad. Looked quite reasonable, £24, £20 and £15 as far as I remember, not sure where for though.