Dunty

From me or him?

 

You don't think he's kinda saying it's alright for those fucking cavemen to act like morons even more by this?

 

I know what they're like.

No, I don't. Does "get stuck in to them" mean we want every opposition player injured?

It's a big game, he's trying to fire up his team. "Inciting violence" is just silly talk.

This Pedro knobhead is something else eh?

 

Talking about going to war and dying for the cause.

 

Nothing like inciting violence and stirring up more shit between us and the hun chunts.

 

 

Deary me.

Sorry but that's just PC gone mad.

Done a rough layout for that one too. End up with a Braga Style Stadium. No idea of the capacity,  or the logistics of being able to extend the RDS though.

 

May I take the opportunity to remind and engage Kingsford man with the news that the Easter Road Redevelopment has already been covered in this thread.

As for the flats behind the newest stand?

Planning Permission for the New Hibs East Stand was granted in February 2005.

The Planning Application for those new flats wasn't submitted until 2010 and the developers kept adjusting it to the extent the application is still not fully determined. The Developers knew the new stand was coming and had to design accordingly.

 

 

With regards to there being nothing in front (or behind depending on your view) of the RDS can I ask why you appear to be ignoring the massive concourse which was required as part of the 1992/93 redevelopment so the 6200 fans inside plus a potential over-spill from the South Stand can be safely contained without blocking Golf Road or Pittodrie Street?

Fair play to you for continuing to entertain 100%AK even though he/she is clearly trolling.

Would be interesting to see if Aberdeen could still get planning permission for Loirston if the houses are built before the stadium. That would still appear their only option if they can't build at Kingsford.

Lets see now.

A club in the 3rd largest city in Scotland which on several occasions a season can bring in crowds of 20000 even when they are losing should cut their capacity thereby reducing arguably their largest potential income stream

I would love to seem them (or indeed any other business) approach potential sponsers/ funders with that business plan.

If there was ever an example of Scottish lack of ambition.

RDS

The only 'modern' stand in the stadium but it was built before UEFA started their bullshit  pitch size regulations. To allow for European matches to be played the pitch had to be lengthened which fucked up the sight lines from the Upper Tier so from certain seats you struggle to see the goal line.

 

South Stand

Im 6ft 4 and yet there is only one occasion I can remember seeing a player take a corner from the South stand/ RDS corner flag. That was the first ever 'away' spl match against Caley Thistle when I took the opportunity to watch the Dons from the away section.

In my younger days I couldn't see about 1/4 of the pitch thanks to the segregation fences.

It is also rapidly becoming a death trap (see my post about stadium design about 40 pages ago)

 

Merkland

Supporting pillars, shallow angle and as with the south stand if you sit in the front rows you get neck-ache having to look up due to the height of the pitch and the drainage profile.

Circulation is not quite as bad as the South stand but it is still poor

 

Main

Front section is the only place you get a decent view but you also get very wet. Rear section - pillar central

Designed for the days when wood & asbestos were the materials of choice and people were apparently max 5ft5.

 

Only the RDL has the unrestricted views of a modern stadium.

The small away supports are due to Pittodries facilities? Well having sat in the away section I can see why. 1/3 of it is uncovered, there is no windshield from the north Sea elements, the fence blocks your view of the south/ merkland corner flag and there are barely any catering facilities or enough toilets.

There is also the 'Aberdeen is miles away' mentality. Perth is OK, Dundee at a push but that last 60miles? no chance

 

What other teams forums are actually discussing the new Dons stadium any more than 'i see the sheep are trying to move'?

Please provide links to these discussions as I am actually interested to see their thoughts and also the people saying they wont go because of having to use a shuttle bus.

What is a myth? That trying to understand the PA announcements from the centre of the pitch is extremely difficult?

That noise from one stand is barely audible from another due to the open nature of the ground?

 

White Hart Lane (before they started dismantling it) springs to mind. Totally enclosed and steep angles having the fans pretty much on top of the players. The low roof with no open corners contained and circulated the noise and you didn't need a sell out crowd or everyone singing to build the atmosphere.

Modern stadiums design includes acoustics, something which was not considered 115 years ago when the main stand was built, or when they bolted seats and quick roof over the south stand.

So you are indeed correct. Staying at pittodrie will mean NOTHING changes

 

No the answer is YOU have decided they wont.

Where does it say the ticket prices will increase? How do you know that this ultra modern stadium wont allow the club to charge £22 per ticket which includes a free ticket on the shuttle bus.

How do you know that the ticket prices may increase to say £25 but you get a 'free' snack & drink & shuttle bus ticket with it?

 

A disaster will be when the Safety certificate for the Main Stand is revoked. A disaster will be when the Capacity of the South Stand is cut in order to obtain the safety certificate or eventually closing altogether when  inadequte pre war foundations finally lose their battle with the sandy soil. Do you know how much it costs to underpin or even replace foundations?

These are genuine threats and no matter how much money the club spends on maintenance there will come a time wont be able to get around the ever evolving health & safety regulations.

 

Here's a case for moving stadium

To redevelop pittodrie the following costs/losses will arise

1) No immediate capital from selling pittodrie to developers.

 

2) Loans taken out to pay for the re-building of 3 stands. The new stands will have to allow for future pitch expansion (UEFA did it once, they can easily do it again) modern emergency access,  crowd circulation, toilet & catering facilties, corporate. The foundations for these new stands will be more expensive due to the sandy soil.

The club will need to approach investors, funders, banks etc with a business model that shows they are cutting their potential income streams to do all this thereby making it harder for them to pay the loans off quickly. This does not give them a strong footing for getting a good deal. Nothing quite like a high interest long term loan to cripple you.

 

3) Losing one stand at a time means the lower capacity stadium starts immediately. If the South stand goes first the capacity immediately drops to 12000. Having to accommodate away fans means home support seats are cut even further. The new south stand will be significantly smaller (it cant be any taller than existing without potential legal challenges and it must comply with modern stadia regs) so lets say it ended up being 4000 seats. The next stand you lose is the Merkland and its replacement's capacity will be about half of the existing (about 1500). Then the Main stand goes and once again new stand will have a capacity about 50% of the existing possible even less if they try to maintain corporate facility levels.

Lower fan potential = less ticket money, less potential merchandise sales, less money from catering, less money from pitch side sponsors= less playing budget and so on

 

4) Still got to build those training facilities somewhere

 

Evidence of this please?

And by evidence I mean an actual masterplan of the site which would allow a proper budget cost to be calculated and not just a figure picked out of the air by builder.

All I have ever seen for this Kings Links stadium was a couple of artists impressions so if you have access to a fully master-planned scheme like the ones for Loriston or Kingsford please either post it here or PM me as I genuinely want to see it.

 

Did that £42million allow for compensating/ relocating the Golf course/ driving range?

Did it include the car-parking, road upgrades, flood defences (yes that's right), complicated ground preparation and foundation design, training facilites?

 

I've heard builders say they could build a house for £120k only for this to almost double when the planning drawings are complete and then rise again once the Structural Engineer gets involved.

Didn't think we ever had any artists impressions for Kings Links. Would be interested to see them.

Out of interest Tom, where do you stand on a potential stadium at Loirston should the one at Kingsford not go ahead?

To answer ye baith. I'm asking why people were for it, not necessarily why it was better or not for the club. I don't think traffic on Wellington Road was really an issue, given you can go up Wellington Road, up past Northsound or out the A90 and back in past the Loch and the bypass for the teuchters. Also, I don't suppose folk gave a fuck whether it would cost £2M extra or whatever, when you're dealing with such a large figure anyway I don't believe it'd matter to a supporter.

 

Maybe I'm just forgetting how many people were in favour of Loirston? Maybe a lot of folks were all for it. It just seems there is a lot more support for something that is demonstrably worse, albeit not by much. Could it be, perhaps, that folk were broken by the Loirston plan and resigned to the idea of the new stadium. So much so that when it eventually got scrapped they were just annoyed and willing to accept anything that came in its place? Some sort of stadium-fatigue-syndrome. That's it. I've diagnosed it. You're all sick fucks. Apart from 100%AK, who is eminently sensible.

The club's mistake with selling Loirston to the fans was they never went into much detail, even through the application stage. Their PR was poor. There was also no talk of a train station. It also didn't help that the club wasn't as successful at the time either on or off the pitch.

Even so, I think it was around 50/50.

The difference now is:

- fans beginning to accept we can't rebuild Pittodrie

- more detailed plans. We've actually got images of inside the stadium, the facilities and specifics it will have (stadium bar, fanzone, musuem, etc). They didn't actually have that in the Loirston plans, just a seating capacity and the outside shell.

- the club's PR has been better. Yule doing most of the talking rather than Milne. Players and manager coming out in support.

A lot of people say Loirston would be a disaster but don't really understand why. If you pushed them on it they would probably come to realise it's just as good if not better than Kingsford.

Loirston seemed like insanity till they came up with this, which is just a farce yet has more support because of the outrageous 'might have no club to support' propaganda and the emphasis being on the training facilities at Kingsford.

 

At least far more people could walk and theoretically walk to Loirston, the transport plan for a 21,000 midweek game was approved, and if the train station was rebuilt it would have been pretty good.

Agreed. Thought the objections (from Aberdeen fans) were over exaggerated at Loirston, folk saying they would never go back. Is the site not next to the AWPR too, and like you said is close to the train line? We could easily make it work.

Disingenuous......

 

"The local Development Plan identifies land at Calder Park (Opportunity Site OP80)

for a new stadium and sports facilities for Cove Rangers Football Club (CRFC). A

detailed planning application for the above proposal was submitted jointly by

CRFC and Aberdeen Football Club (AFC) in August 2011 and was approved by the

Council’s Development Management Sub Committee in January 2012. ACC have

subsequently taken control of the land at Calder Park previously leased to CRFC

and have issued a refusal of Landlord’s Consent for the revised development

proposals on the site, although there is an ongoing commitment to assist with

the club relocation. The proposed sharing of training facilities between CRFC and

AFC is therefore no longer possible and a final decision by AFC on the future

of their proposals is unknown at this time. For the purposes of this Framework,

it is assumed that proposals for each club will proceed in a similar form, albeit

without shared facilities. It is assumed however that any revised proposals for the

relocation of CRFC will require the provision of community facilities at Calder Park

which may be utilised by the existing communities at Cove, Nigg and Kincorth and

the proposed adjoining community at Loirston"

 

ie. It's a deid duck

Is that not from 2012?

This is from the updated LDP, which was released just two months ago.

2.25 Loirston is considered suitable for a new football stadium and a site has been identified to accommodate this as part of a mixed use area. The site can also accommodate 1,500 homes and 11 hectares of employment land. It benefits from being close to a major junction with the AWPR. A new City South Academy is planned for Calder Park.

Not any more they don't.

In the updated local development plan it still has Loirston as a site available to build the stadium on. That and Kings Links are the two areas earmarked in the LDP.

Exactly. They may have a contingency of training ground only, but no plan B for the stadium. They'd just re-visit later or appeal.

That was kinda my point. The training ground is a priority and a necessity. Should the stadium fall through (and by this I mean when all appeals have been exhausted) then surely plan B is to either re-submit at Kingsford with just the training ground, or look to the land at Loirston where they have permission to build.

Or, are they saying that if Kingsford fails then everything is off the table until they find land to build a dual facility, because that would be an act of stupidity as it could take years. If there is no land for it, then plan B has to be to split the two facilities and push ahead with the training ground.

The club must have some sort of contingency plan. Without the training ground the club will lose McInnes and many of the players.

George Yule stating they have no plan B, but that must be the club simply trying to put more pressure on the council. I'm convinced the club will have a plan B in place.

Its already been discussed on this thread if you pay attention.

 

ACC identified and held a consultation with AFC.  Kingslinks (30 seconds from Pittodrie) was identified as ideal location for stadium, training ground etc. It would have all allowed Pittodrie to be flattened, flats built and a new stadium adjacent to the old one.

 

In addition, the club have withdrawn from discussions with AU, RGU particularly around training facilities (which may well have been in place by now) and chose not to partner the Sports Village thing (when it was just in planning) as they always wanted to 'go it alone'.

 

In going it alone they have chosen 3 or 4 project concepts that have failed since 1999 and culminating in the latest Plan C Kingsford project which is now also in doubt as they have submitted a failure of a transport plan which rides roughshod over just about every planning and local development initiative going.

 

So that is numerous Projects over the course of 18 years which have failed to deliver a new stadium for the manager while sporting infrastructure that is better than they plan at Kingsford (indoor facilities at ASV) were not a club priority.

 

Throw in 15 years of neglect of Pittodrie (including the dire state of pitch these days) and its not difficult to detect that the club have blown a load of cash on virtual ideas and failed plans including the current pigs breakfast which cost £50k+ (not to mention £££££££££ spent on previous failed plans).

 

So, again I open the floor Plan D - where?

If this was true, why are you so critical of George Yule? Yule was the chairman of Aberdeen sports village, so it wouldn't have been him turning down a link-up there.

https://goo.gl/maps/qmudFHAkENP2

 

Oxford United

They're planning to move stadium. They're building a new railway station and they are trying to secure land next to it. They've accepted that relying on buses is not a suitable transport strategy should they wish to grow the stadium.

Aberdeen are trying to do the opposite.