I've just been thinking about Deek's comment in terms of how a lot of the time the atmosphere at Pittodrie isn't what he and the team would like it to be.  Obviously the way supporters follow their team has changed since our glory days in the eighties but I kind of agree with Mr McInnes regarding overall matchday experience at Home. 

 

Most recent example I can give myself is when Adam Rooney scored a hat-trick against St.Johnstone a year or two ago now.  There were five minutes left and barring a complete collapse we were cruising to the three points.  Referee failed to give a free-kick on edge of St.Johnstone box.  All of a sudden my view was restricted for thirty seconds or so as everybody around me stood up to berate the official.  I remember saying to myself;

 

"Calm down guys you're literally giving me a sore head with the stupidity one is showing."

 

Personally speaking I think there are some right numpties that follow us these days more so than when we first started following the club in 1991.  Is it just the sign of where society is going generally speaking or is Di Stefano  quote about Aberdeen having what money can't buy a soul, a spirit, built in some family tradition still relevant??     

Good post. There have always been numpties in general and therefore any big gathering of people will find some. It's not the fans who are relevant here but the club management.

 

That quote is no longer applicable. Under Dick Donald, we were a very well run club, pragmatism and common sense being the key foundations. We were ambitious too and strived to be the best we could be. When Ferguson came, he shared that positive ambition and delivered success on a scale that was almost unimaginable but the seeds had been planted by some excellent football in the years before. I always say that the best football I ever saw at AFC was the fifth year post SAF, the 90/91 season which ended tragically at Ibrox, the worst game I've ever been to. Perhaps our soul died that day, when Smiffy showed cowardice and Jocky Scott walked out on him.

 

The culture over the last three decades has been the polar opposite of what AFC once stood and strived for. Milne doesn't have the same values nor ambitions. The football isn't important to him. We had a soul and we could touch, see and smell it for a decade and a half. It's been a dead club for 2.5 decades in my view, treading water and underachieving massively.

 

Having newly decided to walk away, I'm amazed it's taken me this long. The sense of liberation and freedom I've discovered in the last few days, knowing I'll not go back to Pittodrie won't ever get me back the amount of time, money and frustration I've wasted in the last 20+ years but I'm looking forward to watching live football without having a vested interest. Unfortunately I can't watch live games as often as I did because Aberdeen are my closest team but my love for football won't die. The soulless Milne and his hapless succession of managers killed my love for AFC though. Will probably watch them when they're on the telly for a while but I look forward to the day when I don't even want to do that.

In my eyes, the soul has been sucked out of the club and moving the club to an area outside the city, will further suck the remaining soul and tradition from the carcus of the AFC body.

 

I'm like Rocket, in that I can't get enthused by "the product" on offer any more.

Product rather than anything else being the operative word.

 

I'm all for progress, but there has been very little on offer these last couple of years.

The match day atmosphere is flat and uninspiring.

A change in chairmanship and manager is required to spark some life into the club in my opinion to guide us through what should be but won't be, an exciting time.

Di Stefano's quote is no longer relevant.

Good question.  There were plenty numpties at Pittodrie in the 80's, there are lots of numpties at all clubs and even more who don't go to the football so I don't think that's a factor.  We are a long way from that quote now but we were a bit of a way from it in the day.  It was and remains bit over romantic.  Basically we were a good local club with a fortuitous decent board and ambitious, extremely capable manager and all that came along just before the money explosion blew all but the big players out of contention.  We were that as opposed to the bunch of biscuit tin management and players who could earn more working in the fish that we had in the 60's. I usually get into trouble about this but I started going in the early 60's and I suggest the 80's Dons were an entirely different club than the 60's one never mind the difference between 1983 and 36 years later.  Not saying it's always for the good (it's not!) but things change.

What's more frightening for the future of the game is how far Real Madrid have come from those days.  Sure they were a big team that bought the best to supplement their own but they had a history and a culture that was Spanish and a specific type of Spanishness (not my cup of tea but nevertheless ....).  Now they are one of a few global franchises who will swop the world's best players and managers around season after season scooping up the bulk of the TV dosh and ensuring no challengers crop up.  They are a major player in the big club cartel that have stitched the game up.  They are not the romantic Real Madrid of the past.

I just don't get that moving to a new stadium 6 miles away will dilute any soul and tradition out the club. For true diehard fans, we could play on Sheddocksley number 2 and they'd still turn out rain hail or shine to follow the team. Those that choose not to go to the new stadium will be replaced eventually by young loons from the west of the city who were maybe too young to attend games at Pittodrie by themselves but who will have a new shiny stadium practically on their doorstep.

 

The product though, is an altogether different matter. Times have certainly changed since our glory days. From days where we paid the highest wages in Scotland, paid our assistant manager more than the Man United manager and who once had a bid for Ziggy Boniek accepted ( but fell through when they suddenly reneged on the deal) by Juventus.....our highest paid players now earn in a week what the top stars in England, Spain and Italy earn in around 3 to 6 hours. Without a massive investment from a generous benefactor, we will never ever challenge even Celtic again (and sevco will struggle to do so also).

 

Money has fucked football. It's a sad day when clubs like Chelsea are signing young loons aged 6 for whacking great lump sums en masse. Literally hundreds of loons on their books with the vast majority being released by age 16 judged to be not of the desired quality.

Our fans being arseholes is nothing new. I've been finding them particularly hard to deal with this season especially at home although I had my recent visit to Celtic Park ruined by the two brain dead fucking mongs behind me who spent the whole game berating young McLennan in particular. The game itself was somewhat hard work but having those two in my ear the whole game made it pure torture. The cunt could do no right. If he held on to it he was being screamed at to pass it and if he passed it he was being screamed at to hold on to it. Watching any product (even if it's amazing which is isn't) with audible idiots is fucking hard work. Whether it's better or worse now than in the 80s I have no idea.

 

I wish folk would turn up and support the team. There's a difference between support and happy clapping. Turning up and not screaming at or berating our own players shouldn't be hard but apparently it is. It does us no favours and IMO it only has a negative effect on the players. I remember one of our players scoring a goal (earlier this season I think) and signalling the GIRFUY to our fans. I can't remember who it was but the fans deserved it.

I remember one of our players scoring a goal (earlier this season I think) and signalling the GIRFUY to our fans. I can't remember who it was but the fans deserved it.

 

I saw on the highlights on Saturday that McGinn cupped his ears towards our own fans immediately after he scored, thought better of it and desisted.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if there is still a disconnect between the players and fans. There was a deep one when Calderwood and Miller were insulting us. Aberdonians are insular and parochial but we pay their wages and the culture of every successful organisation understands that "total involvement" is the second of the five essential and critical requirements, described as the five pillars of quality by Tom Peters. We should all be pulling in the same direction but it doesn't surprise me that we're not.

It wouldn't surprise me if there is still a disconnect between the players and fans.

 

I think there is a disconnect in football across the board now, and I put a lot of it down to players moving about much more frequently than before and in particular the huge number of loan players on the go.  When I was growing up you could name most of the players in Scotland because there were so many one club men, every club had them.

 

Now we regularly see players at clubs for six month periods and the supporters just do not embrace them the same and vice versa.

 

 

 

 

I wish folk would turn up and support the team. There's a difference between support and happy clapping. Turning up and not screaming at or berating our own players shouldn't be hard but apparently it is. It does us no favours and IMO it only has a negative effect on the players. I remember one of our players scoring a goal (earlier this season I think) and signalling the GIRFUY to our fans. I can't remember who it was but the fans deserved it.

 

The "I pay my money, I can be a dick" attitude that surrounds life in general is a bad thing. It's not just football. Entitlement at its worst.

I just don't get that moving to a new stadium 6 miles away will dilute any soul and tradition out the club. For true diehard fans, we could play on Sheddocksley number 2 and they'd still turn out rain hail or shine to follow the team. Those that choose not to go to the new stadium will be replaced eventually by young loons from the west of the city who were maybe too young to attend games at Pittodrie by themselves but who will have a new shiny stadium practically on their doorstep.

 

It's not practically on anyone in Aberdeen's doorstep though, that's the thing. It is the very definition of soul destroying. It's a fucking trip to Ikea. If Ikea was a lot shitter. Sheddocksley number 2 would retain the soul of a city club. I'd move there no bother.

The "I pay my money, I can be a dick" attitude that surrounds life in general is a bad thing. It's not just football. Entitlement at its worst.

 

Very true but lest we forget, it's the arseholes who are the most vocal and therefore what we remember. The vast majority at Pittodrie are NOT dicks but the likes of Ally McCoist, Kris Boyd and particularly Tam Cowan - there will be many others, mostly from the west of Scotland - consider ALL Aberdeen fans as dicks so the last thing we should be doing is adding to that myth, about our own.

For me another pet hate at modern day football stadia is the folk who stand up and film every corner, penalty kick or free kick!!!!!!!!!!!!  Just bloody LIVE THE MATCH rather than becoming desensitised to it with a concrete memory of some play on your phone.  I often get little bits of memories pop out from my head about certain games.  Like a few days ago I recalled Ze Roberto smashing his shot into Jamie Langfield's side netting at 1-1 when playing Bayern Munich 2008.  I felt that 'heart attack' emotion again we went through same night.  Strange but great to experience such fear once more.  Showed me I cared.       

In my eyes, the soul has been sucked out of the club and moving the club to an area outside the city, will further suck the remaining soul and tradition from the carcass of the AFC body.

 

Couldn't agree more. Further, there is inevitably going to be "natural wastage", where some fans who went to Pittodrie will not bother going to the new Ikea. Some will stop going for reasons of geographical convenience, others will have a fixed mindset and only went latterly out of the routine, whether that be the Kings bar or Pittodrie bar or the golf clubs etc. before and after. The business of AFC needs to attract as much support as it can get. Without the product inspiring people to want to see it, it will inevitably recede.

 

The biggest collection of AFC in recent times was 43k of us at the Red Parkhead. I found it astonishing, seeing how many we had right round the whole stadium that day. It would have been easy to decry them (as I used to do) for not supporting the cub week in week out, thinking of them as glory-hunters. But that day, it showed me how much potential the club could have if we were all pulling in the same direction, which should be the culture and indeed is one key aspect that is insisted on by the best leaders.  I just don't see the missing thousands returning when we move and I fail to understand how anybody can be stupid enough to think that a brand new support will come to Ikea that will be bigger in number than the folk we have lost and will continue to lose. Any newbies won't even exceed the number that quit just because of the move alone.

For me another pet hate at modern day football stadia is the folk who stand up and film every corner, penalty kick or free kick!!!!!!!!!!!!  Just bloody LIVE THE MATCH rather than becoming desensitised to it with a concrete memory of some play on your phone.  I often get little bits of memories pop out from my head about certain games.  Like a few days ago I recalled Ze Roberto smashing his shot into Jamie Langfield's side netting at 1-1 when playing Bayern Munich 2008.  I felt that 'heart attack' emotion again we went through same night.  Strange but great to experience such fear once more.  Showed me I cared.     

 

I watched a great programme last night where Ryan somebody, a disabled conceptual artist gave a brilliant synopsis of the effect of smartphones and social media, how it relates to self and narcissism and the changes it's making to modern society. You can get it on iPlayer, channel BBC4.

I watched a great programme last night where Ryan somebody, a disabled conceptual artist gave a brilliant synopsis of the effect of smartphones and social media, how it relates to self and narcissism and the changes it's making to modern society. You can get it on iPlayer, channel BBC4.

 

Just caught the end, it looked good. Did you continue on to watch Storyville's Silk Road/DPR documentary? Seen it before like, but a good watch.

 

Anyway, a great point about the phones Seabass: "Just bloody LIVE THE MATCH rather than becoming desensitised to it with a concrete memory of some play on your phone". Great quote sir, nicely put.

 

Couldn't agree more. Further, there is inevitably going to be "natural wastage", where some fans who went to Pittodrie will not bother going to the new Ikea. Some will stop going for reasons of geographical convenience, others will have a fixed mindset and only went latterly out of the routine, whether that be the Kings bar or Pittodrie bar or the golf clubs etc. before and after. The business of AFC needs to attract as much support as it can get. Without the product inspiring people to want to see it, it will inevitably recede.

 

The biggest collection of AFC in recent times was 43k of us at the Red Parkhead. I found it astonishing, seeing how many we had right round the whole stadium that day. It would have been easy to decry them (as I used to do) for not supporting the cub week in week out, thinking of them as glory-hunters. But that day, it showed me how much potential the club could have if we were all pulling in the same direction, which should be the culture and indeed is one key aspect that is insisted on by the best leaders.  I just don't see the missing thousands returning when we move and I fail to understand how anybody can be stupid enough to think that a brand new support will come to Ikea that will be bigger in number than the folk we have lost and will continue to lose. Any newbies won't even exceed the number that quit just because of the move alone.

 

I genuinely believe that people like Milne think that they are pulling in the same direction with regard to the new stadium. I don't think they appreciate the plastic environment they're creating for plastic fans. A manufactured day out in the car. I suppose that when you spend your life building soulless housing estates with zero redeeming features, perhaps you begin to believe in it.

Just caught the end, it looked good. Did you continue on to watch Storyville's Silk Road/DPR documentary? Seen it before like, but a good watch.

 

Anyway, a great point about the phones Seabass: "Just bloody LIVE THE MATCH rather than becoming desensitised to it with a concrete memory of some play on your phone". Great quote sir, nicely put.

 

No I didn't but I intend to. Ended up going on to Fleabag and then Big Sky, which featured (mentioned) James Turrell who's work I saw at Voorlinden two weeks ago, a Sky room compete with the benches etc. Amazing.

 

Agree re great quote Seabass 

 

 

I genuinely believe that people like Milne think that they are pulling in the same direction with regard to the new stadium. I don't think they appreciate the plastic environment they're creating for plastic fans. A manufactured day out in the car. I suppose that when you spend your life building soulless housing estates with zero redeeming features, perhaps you begin to believe in it.

 

No Milne is not and has never been pulling in the same direction. It was him who first described the football as "the product" 23 years ago. It was he who proposed a relocation to Kingswells more than 20 years ago when the paint was barely dry on the RDS. He doesn't understand the five pillars of quality or even what the boy was talking about about successful organisations. Milne got rich by schmoozing and sucking the right planning committee dicks, by using and abusing contractors and by building shit and moving on. Football was NEVER an interest of his. He was never at Pittodrie until he wormed his way into our club, thanks to Baby Donald being a spoiled establishment-wannabe public-schooled fuckwit.

 

The other part of the Bayern Munich game of 2008 I often relive as we can't believe it is I'm still expecting that Spanish referee Gonzalez to blow for a foul on Lucio by Darren Mackie in build up to Sone Aluko's goal.  Love Scott Severin's anticipation to win second ball from that particular challenge too.   

There is a lot of talk about the club and the fans pulling in the same direction but kingsford is happening and yet people are still  moaning about the move and threatening not to go anymore.  Does that not mean that the fans are pulling in a different direction from what the club is doing?

 

As for fans who go to Pittodrie but cant be arsed going to kingsford does that not make them plastic fans? Everyone happy to travel to away games and that shit hole hampden but canna get themselves a 10 to 20 minute bus to kingsford

Met a guy last night who said "West Ham" when I asked what team he supports. He's got a ST there and goes about five times p.a. He used to go to Pittodrie all the time but hasn't been for over a decade. Like him, born and bred in Aberdeen there are very many "missing thousands" as I call them, a collective that I myself have just joined. You can call us plastic all you like but it doesn't change the fact that our money won't be going to Milne's AFC. Instead of insulting us, it might be productive to understand why the club has been alienating its customers over the last 20 years.

There is a lot of talk about the club and the fans pulling in the same direction but kingsford is happening and yet people are still  moaning about the move and threatening not to go anymore.  Does that not mean that the fans are pulling in a different direction from what the club is doing?

 

As for fans who go to Pittodrie but cant be arsed going to kingsford does that not make them plastic fans? Everyone happy to travel to away games and that shit hole hampden but canna get themselves a 10 to 20 minute bus to kingsford

 

 

I think you'll find that I (and I'm sure I'm not the only one!) am far from happy with ever having to go to Hampden. I know it seems like a "1st world problem" having to go to Hampden to see your team at the business end of competitions but as a location and as a stadium it's fucking dreadful as most of us will acknowledge.

 

Fans will have their own POV towards Kingsford. It'll be handier for some. Some fans completely accept that we "need" to move and have towed the party line. Redeveloping Pittodrie would've been most (sane) peoples' preferred option but we have to trust those who tell us it's not possible. I'd never expect the fans to unite over such a move just because the club ask us to.

Redeveloping Pittodrie would've been most (sane) peoples' preferred option but we have to trust those who tell us it's not possible.

 

Why do we have to trust them?

Why do we have to trust them?

 

Because redeveloping Pittodrie is not happening.

Because redeveloping Pittodrie is not happening.

 

Everybody knows that but you said we have to trust them, which means we have to trust Milne of course.

 

Is it not relevant what happened over 20 years ago? What if the man you say we need to trust is not trustworthy? What if he's pursuing a personal agenda that wasn't in the best interests of the club?

Well, put it off 5 years and look at it again then.

 

New council might help but mostly a desire to stay where we are would make it happen.

 

Fuck Westhill

Everybody knows that but you said we have to trust them, which means we have to trust Milne of course.

 

Is it not relevant what happened over 20 years ago? What if the man you say we need to trust is not trustworthy? What if he's pursuing a personal agenda that wasn't in the best interests of the club?

 

I don't mean we have to trust him as in genuinely trust him. I'm saying we more or less have no choice now because he's got his will. I don't trust the guy as far as I could throw him.

Well, put it off 5 years and look at it again then.

 

New council might help but mostly a desire to stay where we are would make it happen.

 

Fuck Westhill

 

The council have never been given the option to reject a proposed Pittodrie re-development, so I don't believe we'd have to wait 5 years. We'd just need to apply.