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McGhee, 433 and the future.


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I would never profess to being a tactical genius, or even having proper footballing ability or tactical understanding but here are my observations from the four games so far this season.

 

We do not play 433.

We play the (World Cup 2010) Dutch 4231.

 

This, I think, could work really well for us.

Mcghee loves his full backs to be defensive, rarely crossing the half way line and our current back four of centre backs fits the bill perfectly. Solid, unsophisticated defenders who will keep things tight at the back (most the time).

 

We then have a defensive duo of Hartley and Folley who are experts at grafting in the middle of the park. Winning the ball, playing the simple pass, and moving the ball from the defensive back four to our attacking four.

 

Then your attacking four of bright, skillful players with pace to burn.

Pawlett wide right, Fyvie in the middle and Aluko out left, all with vision, control, speed and enthusiasm who can deliver in this formation and achieve things.

All linking with the the target man up front who knows where the goal is (ok we don't have that yet but 10/11 ain't bad)

 

Problem is when we don't have that XI available, or more importantly that front 4 available, the formations crumbles in to pieces. (The other problem is McGhee playing Pawlett out of position)

 

To summarise this season (and spotted by most before today)

We have no width without Aluko and Pawlett.

Pawlett is horrifically wasted in the middle.  Each game he has moments of genius but these have been exclusively when picking up the ball wide and having space to run at people.  For me he is potentially the most exciting player since Jess.  We probably only have a year or two of him, and to waste him as we have done this season is sacrilege. His speed and skill will destroy most full backs in this league. Played in a congested midfield he is lost, looks disillusioned and lacks the physicality to succeed.

 

If we aren't playing these two wide we have NO width.

Maguire and Mackie can do a perfectly good job for us through the middle but they are TERRIBLE in the wide positions they have been played so far this season.  I think both players get too much abuse at times as they are being badly utilised by McGhee and will never achieve anything in the positions they are being asked to play....if I was Maguire I'd get out now otherwise he will be at Peterhead in two years.

Both have ability and an eye for goal that we could use through the middle, but, as today proved, played out wide all they ensure is the most narrow, blunt afc attack in history. 

 

Fyvie provides the link between our defensive midfielder and the three attacking players, the Sneijder role.

Without him we have nobody even close to filling that position, yet I think we could probably get away with the 4231 with Maguire or Young in that role (it is the SPL after all).

 

Thing is, if we have no Fyvie, Aluko or Pawlett (as he is being played out of position) we don't have the attacking players to play 4231.  The formation hinges on having exciting players up front and without then it descends into the kind of performance we had today that too often was 45.....................1

 

Without these players it doesn't matter how good in theory the 4231 is, we have to play 442.  Maggenis and Vernon both look like they need partners, a role that Maguire or Mackie could excel at give a chance.  Our optimal 4231 can accommodate that.  Today's 45...............1 can't.

 

It seems so obvious.

We have improved massively on last season but for me if we are to achieve anything in the next couple of years McGhee has to realise he has to utilise the players to the best of their abilities.

 

4231 can work but other formations may work better depending on the availability and form of players.  He needs to acknowledge his formations strengths and weaknesses and learn from his mistakes and we could, maybe, be better than ok.

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Was it on the Friday sports show thingy (whatever is on stv on Friday nights) that McGhee was defending this formation and saying the start to the season proves he was right? But as you point out it's the right players that make it work not the formation itself.

 

My biggest gripe about McGhee with this formation this season is that at times he himself can see it isn't working (you know thing coz he changes it about) but he doesn't swap Maguire and Pawlett to put Pawlett out wide and Maguire in the middle..... He changes Maguire and Mackie on the wings when the reason its not working is coz they're not wingers, changing which wing they are on wont help.

 

If he was so determined to keep the formation for today then he needs less strikers and more players that can play the attacking midfield role, because with only one up front he uses strikers out wide coz he has so many that'd be on the bench otherwise. Personally I think the best replacement for Aluko (in his role) would have been Foster from who was available. Although Megginson looked a vast improvement on the left than Mackie (but isn't he technically a striker as well?)

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Was it on the Friday sports show thingy (whatever is on stv on Friday nights) that McGhee was defending this formation and saying the start to the season proves he was right? But as you point out it's the right players that make it work not the formation itself.

 

 

 

I missed this.  The beginning of the season showed the formation can work, and, as I have suggested, can work better.  However it has also shown it's flaws.  This is my main worry with McGhee (and was my main problem with Calderwood): his inability to learn from his mistakes.

 

We need to be far more flexible, and although 433/4231 is the formation that is dominating European football it doesn't mean we have an XI that can play it every week.

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I would never profess to being a tactical genius, or even having proper footballing ability or tactical understanding but here are my observations from the four games so far this season.

 

We do not play 433.

We play the (World Cup 2010) Dutch 4231.

 

This, I think, could work really well for us.

Mcghee loves his full backs to be defensive, rarely crossing the half way line and our current back four of centre backs fits the bill perfectly. Solid, unsophisticated defenders who will keep things tight at the back (most the time).

 

We then have a defensive duo of Hartley and Folley who are experts at grafting in the middle of the park. Winning the ball, playing the simple pass, and moving the ball from the defensive back four to our attacking four.

 

Then your attacking four of bright, skillful players with pace to burn.

Pawlett wide right, Fyvie in the middle and Aluko out left, all with vision, control, speed and enthusiasm who can deliver in this formation and achieve things.

All linking with the the target man up front who knows where the goal is (ok we don't have that yet but 10/11 ain't bad)

 

Problem is when we don't have that XI available, or more importantly that front 4 available, the formations crumbles in to pieces. (The other problem is McGhee playing Pawlett out of position)

 

To summarise this season (and spotted by most before today)

We have no width without Aluko and Pawlett.

Pawlett is horrifically wasted in the middle.  Each game he has moments of genius but these have been exclusively when picking up the ball wide and having space to run at people.  For me he is potentially the most exciting player since Jess.  We probably only have a year or two of him, and to waste him as we have done this season is sacrilege. His speed and skill will destroy most full backs in this league. Played in a congested midfield he is lost, looks disillusioned and lacks the physicality to succeed.

 

If we aren't playing these two wide we have NO width.

Maguire and Mackie can do a perfectly good job for us through the middle but they are TERRIBLE in the wide positions they have been played so far this season.  I think both players get too much abuse at times as they are being badly utilised by McGhee and will never achieve anything in the positions they are being asked to play....if I was Maguire I'd get out now otherwise he will be at Peterhead in two years.

Both have ability and an eye for goal that we could use through the middle, but, as today proved, played out wide all they ensure is the most narrow, blunt afc attack in history. 

 

Fyvie provides the link between our defensive midfielder and the three attacking players, the Sneijder role.

Without him we have nobody even close to filling that position, yet I think we could probably get away with the 4231 with Maguire or Young in that role (it is the SPL after all).

 

Thing is, if we have no Fyvie, Aluko or Pawlett (as he is being played out of position) we don't have the attacking players to play 4231.  The formation hinges on having exciting players up front and without then it descends into the kind of performance we had today that too often was 45.....................1

 

Without these players it doesn't matter how good in theory the 4231 is, we have to play 442.  Maggenis and Vernon both look like they need partners, a role that Maguire or Mackie could excel at give a chance.  Our optimal 4231 can accommodate that.  Today's 45...............1 can't.

 

It seems so obvious.

We have improved massively on last season but for me if we are to achieve anything in the next couple of years McGhee has to realise he has to utilise the players to the best of their abilities.

 

4231 can work but other formations may work better depending on the availability and form of players.  He needs to acknowledge his formations strengths and weaknesses and learn from his mistakes and we could, maybe, be better than ok.

 

:clap:

 

Excellent post GS.

 

I wasn't at the game today, however it was obvious last week and from the (lucid) reports of our 2 games since that certain formations only work when when have players played in position, or who can play/have the skills in the formation the manager aspires to.

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Maggenis and Vernon both look like they need partners, a role that Maguire or Mackie could excel at give a chance. 

 

Exactly. I can only comment on last week not yesterday, but taking off Magennis and putting Vernon and Mackie up front resulted us getting the goal as it pushed the whole team forward.

 

 

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Exactly. I can only comment on last week not yesterday, but taking off Magennis and putting Vernon and Mackie up front resulted us getting the goal as it pushed the whole team forward.

 

Don't forget that was combined with the introduction of FF into midfield. Although I think Vernon looks a more intelligent player than Magennis, he looked more dangerous against Alloa when he came on and was making smart runs, Magennis is a battering ram.

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