100% Anti Kingsford

I honestly fail to see what the difference is for us if the same space is behind our stands. There are other new English grounds I've looked at with no space and I mean nothing behind them at all. How is this allowed?

Supposedly there are visual plans going around on Twitter of Stewart Milne's signed off housing plan for the Pittodrie land.

Sorry, you have been awarded 0 (zero) points today.

Come back tomorrow. 

I think yer missing some pretty important details in there though! Whilst I obviously don't believe the 12K figure, suggestions like this are pretty unhelpful as they can easily be shot down (for example, we need more area behind the stands than previously because of changed regulations). This makes it seem like there's no possible way that it could be built, when really we need to see the drawings. As AK says, it should have been a collaborative process. Everything should have been transparent, detailed and discussed.

Jist to clarify, by 'collaboration' I wasn't referring to me as a user.  I'm an ordinary bod using a fitba forum like the rest of us.  There has been no rallying port of call for Dons fans against Kingsford.

By collaboration I mean Kingsford and a project of this type - at the end of the day you are speaking about a project worth £50m - the stadium development should have been based on a more collaborative transparent approach between all main stakeholders as a means of breaking down the differences at the outset.    It has never been a positive campaign leading to lies, mistrust, polarisation, anger, spite, argument - and the Aurora thing last week stirred up a hornet's nest.

It's ok AFC to say 'this is £50m private investment' but whether they liked it or not the main stakeholders were always going to be 1: AFC 2: ACC 3: Local community action groups impacted and adjacent to plans (for or against).  ACC are and have always been a key pivotal stakeholder. Its hardly clever Mr Milne now driving them into a corner now.

Forget the views on here.  The campaign for this stadium has not been a positive one - it has been a divisive uncollaborative project between the main stakeholders who should have all worked together successfully.  More or less now at this late stage one party has driven the each other into a corner via threats i.e. AFC Exec's have forced ACC into a corner with their 'or there is nothing else' rhetoric and NKS have threatened legal action.

AFC are hardly stepping into Westhill with a positive approach with certain sections of the community, are they?  By the sounds of it the community in Westhill is also deeply divided and polarised and whose fault is that?

Highly creative.

Score update today Yes Kingsford (14) points vs. No Kingsford (1) point.

20 bonus points for being highly perceptive.

 

It's got down to trying to score points over each other now, which is absolutely pathetic. Like two little kids squabbling over which one is the favourite and trying to make the other one look bad.

 

As much as I disagree with some of the 'arguments' from both sides, I'm not going to come to blows with anyone over their choice, I may well reserve the right to call them a dick of course

Correct.  It's all petty point scoring, like Old Firm tit for tat.

Using emoji's with a laughing face in response to another post on Donstalk = 10 bonus points.

Well done, you are in the lead today.

Don't really believe you but if true that's fucking pathetic. Pricks.

Don't believe me?  You know nothing about me, nothing about my views on free speech, nothing about my research on online use or views on social media use or views on law or the powers at be (Police). 

The trouble is it's a campaign that has been split into rallying around defined banners when actually the whole god damn issue is more than that on both sides.    It's become dislike v dislike when (if you had read what I have said in the past) Kingsford should have been about collaboration.

But here we have it.  On one side NKS vs. Yes Kingsford.  Nothing in the middle and both sides making judgements about each other.  Ask yourself, in the murky world of online social media is it really any surprise  what has alleged to have been said and the supposed consequences?

Which Dons forum is this alleged to have occurred on?

For clarity, it's a divisive topic obviously, but not wanting any person/s into trouble over it.

As far as I'm aware there have been a few fisticuffs over this issue between blokes in the past i.e. arguments in pubs that continued outside - its emotive.

I don't disagree with that, it's an absolute sham that we haven't had proper training facilities in place by now.  I'm not sure whether that's to penny pinching or what, or no willing investors but it's a disgrace. If there was one thing i'd hold against Milne, it would be this. Endless five year plans with no delivery.  Maybe it's all tied back to the documentary I posted in the hun thread the other week. Maybe we couldn't get the loans from the bank?  I'm not sure.

Give this is a no win situation given balance of For v Against - An entirely fair judgement for the Council ACC would be to give full planning support to Phase 1. And that's it.

The club don't seem to mind debt so use debt for training facilities and AFCCT only. Phase 1.

1. It's a slightly different scale

2. The SFA has SFA to do with helping us

3. The board has, for years, been shite

4. Gloating doesn't achieve anything

In this particular instance it wasn't a gloating attempt. For clarity - Annoyed and saddened at clubs failures when they blame everyone else

As to whatever has allegedly been said on another forum on this divisive issue no wish whatsoever to see anyone whoever they are pulled up for comments on this topic whether for or against.. I am sure the police IMO would much prefer doing other work.

I'm sure many would agree there is a big big difference between words and actions especially on fitba forums (and that applies to all teams).

Of course, the players need facilities.  But why are they not in place a long time ago?  And why are they now going to cost the guts of £30m+ of debt to put in place?

Last weekend I was in Scottish Borders. An amateur football club in borders has just built facilities via SFA grants, lottery grants, and local fundraising efforts.  This club has got x 1 Social club, 1 x Football grass pitch, 1 x 3G training pitch, a car park and dressing rooms.

It took them 2 years to get it all in place and ready. 

It's taken our club (a European side, 3rd biggest in Scotland) 17 years and £5m to create a vision for a place that will give the club £30m of debt in creating it and does not have a rationale transport plan for us to get to it.

I don't think you can dictate who can/can't reply to your posts on a PUBLIC forum, min.

I understand friend.  But I can as a user I can only politely ask or suggest.

........especially with respect to this bloody godforsaken devisive topic where folk are poles apart in terms of it ...........

I think this is what annoys me most about this debate. They've never said it couldn't, it just can't to the levels we require. Going for a smaller stadium when we're trying to boost our profile and viability is suicide. Especially when you take into account the areas of the ground that would need to be closed for those periods. Lunacy. Absolute lunacy.  Maybe 15 years ago when we were utter horseshoe it would have made sense, but not a chance today. It's not just about seats either, it's about facilities and accommodation for the club. Things which Pittodrie doesn't have space for alongside an 18-20k stadium.

The response to Manc Don only.

* The club have said on several occasions that Pittodrie could not be rebuilt.  Last week (w/c 14.08) they said it could be rebuilt but only to 12,000 capacity - really?

* Lunacy you say - Stadiums can be reconstructed incrementally. Many clubs across the world have done this, are currently doing it and do it all the time. Believe me when I tell you this - I have been to over 500+ worldwide often watching, seeing redeveloping stadia as build goes on. And this redevelopment (that you call lunacy) tends not to impact on the levels of success teams enjoy on the field.  Many, although of course not all of these clubs, are bigger clubs than Aberdeen ever will be.

* Levels of success do not remain so all the time as current.  Although many people won't accept it AFC will go through its cycle of mediocrity again, McInnes will leave, players will go - and when they do that £30m+ debt Kingsford costs wont go away.  it's just the way it is. Having a training academy is great but does not equate in to success on the field of play - see Hibs, Hearts, Rangers etc.

* Although Simmie at youth academy would have you believe it we are not going to be producing the next Neymar or attracting Neymar via having a Kingsford. SPL level, good quality Scottish players are on our radar - thats the stretch of it and they will come here even if the team are training on a public park in Tullos.

One last thing - you know who - don't bother replying to my posts.  Thanks.

We already live in a country where your emails can be hacked, profiling goes on and GCHQ have and know god knows what about you.

Facebook membership entails god knows what.

Best AFC know about you is what kind pie you like and far you stay. They've got a knowledge sharing thing with police Scotland but then so might your local tesco if they suspect you of knicking tins of tennents.

Scottish fitba needs as many people in gate as it can get. Excluding fans, labelling them under some sort of political leaning via data profiling, eyeball tracking is dangerous game if it ever comes to that.

AFC already have a membership scheme with your d.o.b, address, email, age, where you sit, passport ID for euro games.  Can't say it's any problem - every time you make a transaction on a visa debit whether in Asda or Wetherspoons it's tracked or traceable.  AFC was advertising from some SQL, big data manager person this week.

Oh, and another one of the myths was exploded this week if you look and read around.  The club revealed Pittodrie CAN be rebuilt but only to 12,000 capacity. 

Rather makes - we've nae Plan B thing - sound contradictory.

There are all sorts of fans in Hungarian football who have been marginalised out of ground due to the new stadium - it's more complex than that.  Corruption plays a huge role in the redevelopment of its new stadiums - it's hugely corrupt and political off the pitch (in Hungary) and more murky and politically motivated than the groups being excluded who are simply hardcore fans.

I myself have a Fradi card. 

Attendances were very poor anyway beforehand.

Anyway, at Fradi - it's simply the old stadium redeveloped - there is no parallel with Aberdeen.  Same with Vasas, same with MTK, same with Nep stadium, same with Ujpesti - they all redeveloped or are redeveloping the old fashioned stadiums into a new stadium and given the creation a corporate, business title.

As far I am aware many disagreed with Ferencvaros redevelopment since the stadium was the Florian Albert Stadium and he is the best player Ferencvaros have had - a statue of him used to be inside the stadium and they removed it and put it outside the stadium after it become new place.  So naturally it hit a raw nerve with people.

I know one person whose relatives ashes are scattered outside RDS.

As mentioned the Puskas Academia club build a new stadium and training academy in a small town but this was a new club - not a true legacy team. This creation has been subject to a parliamentary investigation into the role of the Hungarian PM in terms of the funding behind it and building contracts awarded which have been smeared with allegations of alleged corruption.

If you could see the crowd that must have been the old stadium.

 

Sparse crowd tonight (stupid kick off time)

But the acoustics of this place are amazing.

 

200 ish behind the goal making some racket.

 

Mind you the Hungarians have been building things with acoustics in mind for a long time.

 

1-0 Fradi

Not responding in any way to any of 'his/her' posts nor have I read them. Not interested in anything he/she says.

On the Fradi stadium.

Unfortunately, the Ferencvaros Stadium has been very bad for the hardcore fans who followed the club.  The new stadium has membership scheme which involves finger printing (i.e. before you get club card they scan your thumb) and many of the hardcore fans have boycotted the stadium.

Budapest derbies are slowly dying in terms of atmosphere - apart from at Honved which is still a little old school.

For a long while Ferencvaros ultras groups (and there are hundreds of members) were following Ferencvaros II B team instead of first team but the club have clamped down on that.

The Ferencvaros stadium was the Ülloi út then the Flórián Albert Stadium.  The new stadium which is Groupama?? is on the same site (i.e. they didn't move 8 miles outside Budapest) and the pitch, as far as I know, was just re-orientated closer to metro/tube stops.

So, to put it mildly, the new Fradi stadium does a lot for family fans, is great for advertising, corporate hosting and UEFA like it.  However, the stadium has killed atmospheres due to harsh regulations used to exclude fan groups and apart from when it's used for the games of the national team its not been a good move for the hardcore.

Yes, the hardcore politics of Fradi hardcore fan groups could change and new relationships are built and derby matches become like old but essentially the disappearance of old school stadia in Budapest (MTK have also developed its ground) has crushed a lot of the past atmosphere.

Note also - most Hungarian clubs build and redeveloped the ORIGINAL grounds - I.E. did not move away 8 miles.  One club Puskás Akadémia built a futuristic training academy/come stadium in middle nowhere (and that is tainted by political corruption) but most clubs have redeveloped old stadia and the jury is out (amongst fans) as to whether the news structures do anything for anyone apart from money men who run clubs.

ID registration schemes and ticket schemes in Budapest continue to create various problems as regards boycotts for all supporters in Hungary. It changes from game to game, season to season and the national team games can be good at Fradi stadium.  However, the new stadium is not fan friendly. That is about it.

Guess who's back, back again · Shady's back (oooops, sorry better not use word shady to describe him/her in case he/she gets mock outraged).

Basically, you are typical of Yes Kingsford side. You've been coming on here with your very own brand of Yes Kingsford drivel for ages jabbing your views and cancerous opinions on this bloody stadium for ages.  I've barely finished pressing the keyboard on whatever post I do and you're in throwing about your childish, nothingness worthless insults or accusing No Kingsford side, or those who have views not cognisant with your views on Kingsford of whatever.

Its a load of words. Worthless online garbage and totally insignificant.

I don't agree with your posts, and in the real world you are not a person I would associate with in any way and if I found I sat anywhere near you at Pittodrie I would A: Change my seat or B: Request a refund on my match ticket.

You - as I have mentioned before are like a lot of the Yes Kingsford side - you are a worthless and love to manipulate words to feed your agenda about Kingsford.

But two can play at a manipulative game of words if you want?

Stop replying to my posts - can't think of any better solution to this daft bickering Yes/No arguments.  As in the online virtual world on Donstalk (Catlogo Granite man/woman) as in the real outside world. 

I have no wish to associate with you whatsoever, I disagree with you, I don't like your views or your opinions - so stop replying to me.

Have a nice life.

Thanks for that, it was either Gervaise Brookhampster or 100% YES to Kingsford but I thought having your opinion as a username was a bit shit to be honest.

Wonderful post. Thanks for brightening my day with these words - especially during lunch.

Great Pic as well - very funny.  Quite amusing.

and?

Very creative username.

Hugely impressed.

You messed that up big style min.

 

The only thing that you can do to make it worse is to pretend it's a whoosh

Thanks for that.

Very articulate.

You do realise that everyone has Simmie and Durrant on their user name?

 

It's the Donstalk equivalent of "Likes" (and dislikes).

 

You've regularly asserted in this thread that "it's just a forum". You're correct. So calm the fuck doon.

wooooooooooossssssssshhhhhhhh

:laughing: Plot lost 

And that's a post from a guy whose username is a Michael Palin 'Twit of the year' character.

oooooooh lost it now min

Not really mate.

Two can play at the manipulation of words game.

Come to think of it - two can play at that manipulative game.

'Simmie and Durrant' - on your username.  Eh, what would Daily Record think of that eh?

Using hate towards Rangers and that infamous incident in Oct 1988 in your username eh?

"Simmie Durrant" eh - visible in anything you post eh Garlogie Granite - condoning hate eh in your username?

Dangerous man.