Author Topic: 4th place??  (Read 952 times)

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Offline LA-Don

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4th place??
« on: May 19, 2020, 03:17:04 AM »
Well, understandably, pretty dead here these days. So what are everyone’s thoughts on 4th? Prize money what was set out at the start of the year? Based on form and the season, I’d say 4th may well be better than we’d have ended up!

Plus, now that the league is over, is the cup done too? And to end, which free agents are we now going to be linked with?? What’s everyone’s take on the upcoming windows given so many teams are financially fucked?



Offline RicoS321

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Re: 4th place??
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2020, 10:50:25 AM »
I think we'd have finished third. It's funny how it ended really, if we'd played another weekend of fixtures, I reckon that there'd have been a lot more contentedness with the positions. The game between us and Motherwell would have effectively been a playoff for third, and if the tims had beaten the Huns there'd have been very little argument over the title. Similarly, if hearts had picked up another 0 points they'd have been that bit closer to their deserved relegation. Anyway, it's a bit of a shite way to end things, but likely the right call.

I think there'll be many casualties from this and expect to see a few closures and some reconstruction. I think we have very few out of contract from memory and expect to see much the same squad whenever fitba returns. Cormack not expecting fans this year, which will be weird. Some interesting stuff in the papers recently about refs' home bias being nullified in closed door games, so the huns will be fucked. We need to be holding the tims to ransom and get some proper concessions over European prize money and sharing the wealth in order to keep the game going up here. It'll be fairly perilous for the next couple of years.

Offline KennyFuckinPowers

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Re: 4th place??
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2020, 03:19:07 PM »
Pretty much this.....

Aberdeen were a point behind in fourth in what was an odd season. They won three games in a row in the autumn, the only time they ever threatened to go on a run. They didn't even win two in a row before that spell - or after. Derek McInnes came under heavy fire from the fans after a 5-0 loss to Rangers and an insipid 4-0 defeat by Celtic, made worse by the fact that it was at Pittodrie and also because it could have been 8-0.

Off the field, they made strides with the opening of their new training base and an injection of money, but they have a lot of work to do for next season. Aberdeen became overly reliant on Sam Cosgrove's goals. He got 23 in all competitions, a great haul, but he fell away in the new year, scoring just once in the league, from the penalty spot.

Cosgrove ended up on the bench as Aberdeen tried to find some momentum. Of the top six, the Pittodrie side scored the fewest goals, which is a reflection of their overly defensive tactics at times and an illustration that McInnes could do with more firepower. This league season was something of a non-event for Aberdeen.



It's a math class, the whole deal. Just like every math class, there's a clown in the front, and everybody hates this clown because he raises his hand, he's answering all the questions. What do we do? Move on. Just fucking move on, ready or not. He's deciding we got to move on, he knows his math, I hadn't even figured out about Santa Claus yet.

Offline TheDeeDon

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Re: 4th place??
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2020, 04:25:31 PM »
It was a shitty situation football found itself in and an unprecedented one at that and being realistic there was no chance the remaining games could be played, so I'm OK with 4th.

Overall this season we were mainly shite, even losing our ability to grind out wins when playing badly, something which we were quite good at during the reign of McInnes seemed to be beyond us this season, but we just never really clicked this season, but to be fair neither did the other teams which kept us in the running for the 3rd spot.

For what it's worth I think we would have got 3rd, but just have to concentrate on next season now.

I can understand teams being pissed that they have been relegated because of it, but because it is hearts I don't give a fuck.

Offline Slim

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Re: 4th place??
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2020, 07:02:16 PM »
Shades of Calderwood's last season. Played awful football, seemed to be dropping points all over the place, but still end up in the European spot at the end.

Offline SeeBass

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Re: 4th place??
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2020, 07:25:08 PM »
Do we definitely get Europa League spot??  I could have sworn we read somewhere saying Scotland was only having three places in Europe for next season.

Offline rocket_scientist

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Re: 4th place??
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2020, 07:51:55 PM »
Failing to complete the season is nuts, given that almost 80% of games had been played.

We have no idea when football will come back so why make the decision just now? Money? Give them all the minimum they would have got and the balance later.

UEFA haven't jumped. The EPL haven't so why did we need to?

Complete this and then have a truncated season to May 2021 was the rational move.

Scottish administrators are a joke, the arse-end of human competence.
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Offline DantheDon

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Re: 4th place??
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2020, 08:39:35 PM »
Do we definitely get Europa League spot??  I could have sworn we read somewhere saying Scotland was only having three places in Europe for next season.

I don't see why we would only get 3, the coefficient has been getting better over the last few seasons. I haven't seen any confirmation that we are getting the final spot, notice posters on the other thread saying the Scottish cup is not null and void yet? Not that I'm convinced there will be European football next season, so it might not matter anyway.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 08:42:10 PM by DantheDon »

Offline bearsdenred

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Re: 4th place??
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2020, 12:32:01 AM »
Failing to complete the season is nuts, given that almost 80% of games had been played.

We have no idea when football will come back so why make the decision just now? Money? Give them all the minimum they would have got and the balance later.

UEFA haven't jumped. The EPL haven't so why did we need to?

Complete this and then have a truncated season to May 2021 was the rational move.

Scottish administrators are a joke, the arse-end of human competence.


I think there understanding was 2 fold.

1) NO FANS in stadium until 2021.

2) To play the amount of games, finish season if possible, Teams loose players left right and centre when June comes around and players contracts go.

For example. Say games could be played 1st june, We have a close season, players to buy for next season, contracts to renew. Yet to play 8 odd games, what one a day? every 4th day? June 1st- june 31st get all games in, THEN to start trying to get new players.

Now lets say 10 teams loose 50-65% of their players that there contracts ended, players also refuse to play due to covid-19. Where do teams like St mirren and hamilton get the PLAYERS to finish the games?


Now lets take the finance, two options.

End season, Pay out money and call the league.
OR
Null and void like some nuckle dusters wanted.

You null and void, league is ripped up. NO games played. NO Winnings, NO money.

Huns didnt like that one bit, they are mostly broke again playing season after season on EBTS all over again. using season ticket money and shares.

Was it right to call the league, of course. I would have done it differently. Call it and No relegation. Automatically change the league to 14-14-14. Use that format for the next 3 years. Get over the covid pandemic and future global recession that is coming over that hill.

Offline DantheDon

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Re: 4th place??
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2020, 08:12:44 AM »
Was it right to call the league, of course. I would have done it differently. Call it and No relegation. Automatically change the league to 14-14-14. Use that format for the next 3 years. Get over the covid pandemic and future global recession that is coming over that hill.

I would have quite liked to see the league restructured as well. The 14-14-14 would have had the benefit of making the split fairer. You split after 26 games and then play each team in your half a further twice meaning we would never end up going playing a team away 3 times in a season to balance the home and away games.

Offline RicoS321

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Re: 4th place??
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2020, 09:13:06 AM »
It has to be 16 for me, and would have made ultimate sense given the shortened season. We need to move away from the 4 old firm games per season shite that massively compromised us when they went bust last time and had chairmen all over calling for newco to be promoted straight back into the SPL. It's completely unsustainable to base your income on two teams and leaves you completely open to blackmail/begging. 16 teams. All European money goes into a separate fund and is split between all teams. No money based on league placings. Everyone starts with the same budget other than that which their attendances afford them. An end to buying leagues, and end to sport that isn't sport. Get our own fucking TV (internet) channel, with even coverage and proper analysis and coverage of all leagues. Never again should we be held to ransom by Sky, BT or the Scum. Take the opportunity to build an actual sport and market the shite out of it as the antithesis of the EPL - for proper fitba fans.

But, aye, I think ending the season was the best idea. We could have been playing the last 8 games with entirely different teams from the rest of the season. It wouldn't have worked. I'd prefer a voiding, as I think that a forever tainted league title will be just that (if I were a Tim, I don't think I'd have wanted a title in such fashion), but I understand that is a minority view for obvious reasons (I'm wrong, basically!). I also do think it's slightly unfair on Hearts. The bottom six split is way more likely to see a significant change in league placings than the top six (as the Tims pretty much beat everyone regardless), and I genuinely believe they'd have stayed up.

Offline rocket_scientist

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Re: 4th place??
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2020, 09:44:48 AM »
League reconstruction is a different subject of course but 14 teams per league and 38 games is the most sensible option I've ever read.

The most insensible thing in my opinion is what they've done. As lockdown is effectively a freezing of operations - of life as well as the economy including sport - and many are being furloughed, nothing needed to happen until the corona ice has thawed. What were the reasons for having to decide now when the future isn't foreseeable? UEFA and the EPL haven't jumped.
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Offline wee toon red

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Re: 4th place??
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2020, 10:11:20 AM »
League reconstruction is a different subject of course but 14 teams per league and 38 games is the most sensible option I've ever read.

The most insensible thing in my opinion is what they've done. As lockdown is effectively a freezing of operations - of life as well as the economy including sport - and many are being furloughed, nothing needed to happen until the corona ice has thawed. What were the reasons for having to decide now when the future isn't foreseeable? UEFA and the EPL haven't jumped.

The reason, apparently, is the apparently "massive" ( :hammer:) new deal from Sky which was due to start in August 2020. The clubs shat themselves that Sky might withdraw if there was a delay to the start of the 20/21 season due to 19/20 having still to be finished.
Can you blame the man for going out of his mind temporarily?

Offline rocket_scientist

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Re: 4th place??
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2020, 10:27:05 AM »
The reason, apparently, is the apparently "massive" ( :hammer:) new deal from Sky which was due to start in August 2020. The clubs shat themselves that Sky might withdraw if there was a delay to the start of the 20/21 season due to 19/20 having still to be finished.

Ah so the SPFL know that professional football is going to restart in 2/3 months time? And they reckon Sky are giving them the same deal that had been negotiated, even if there's no crowds? Scottish admin shit show as per.
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Offline BigAl

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Re: 4th place??
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2020, 11:27:57 AM »

I think there understanding was 2 fold.

1) NO FANS in stadium until 2021.

2) To play the amount of games, finish season if possible, Teams loose players left right and centre when June comes around and players contracts go.

For example. Say games could be played 1st june, We have a close season, players to buy for next season, contracts to renew. Yet to play 8 odd games, what one a day? every 4th day? June 1st-june 31st get all games in, THEN to start trying to get new players.

Now lets say 10 teams loose 50-65% of their players that there contracts ended, players also refuse to play due to covid-19. Where do teams like St mirren and hamilton get the PLAYERS to finish the games?


Now lets take the finance, two options.

End season, Pay out money and call the league.
OR
Null and void like some nuckle dusters wanted.

You null and void, league is ripped up. NO games played. NO Winnings, NO money.

Huns didnt like that one bit, they are mostly broke again playing season after season on EBTS all over again. using season ticket money and shares.

Was it right to call the league, of course. I would have done it differently. Call it and No relegation. Automatically change the league to 14-14-14. Use that format for the next 3 years. Get over the covid pandemic and future global recession that is coming over that hill.

Lots of sense in there mate but there is one very fundamental flaw in what you propose  :laughing:
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Offline sancho_panza

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Re: 4th place??
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2020, 04:00:21 PM »
A 14 team league with a 6-8 split seems the most popular option, but it's actually a bit of a halfway measure that would probably make things worse in my view. Think about the teams that are 7th-10th at the split - they'd be faced with another 14 games of largely meaningless football where they'd be clear of relegation, but couldn't rise higher than 7th. It's basically a pretty good way to make a very large part of the season pointless for a lot of teams, which is presumably the exact opposite of what restructuring is supposed to do (i.e. make the league more entertaining).

For me, it has to go up to 16/18 or stay at 12.

Offline wee toon red

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Re: 4th place??
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2020, 04:29:55 PM »
A 14 team league with a 6-8 split seems the most popular option, but it's actually a bit of a halfway measure that would probably make things worse in my view. Think about the teams that are 7th-10th at the split - they'd be faced with another 14 games of largely meaningless football where they'd be clear of relegation, but couldn't rise higher than 7th. It's basically a pretty good way to make a very large part of the season pointless for a lot of teams, which is presumably the exact opposite of what restructuring is supposed to do (i.e. make the league more entertaining).

For me, it has to go up to 16/18 or stay at 12.

Other than massively increasing the number of teams relegated, how would anyone avoid the "meaningless game" scenario in an 18/20 team league? Surely there are meaningless games in England, Germany and Spain every year but I don't see much clamour there to go down to 10 or 12 teams.
Can you blame the man for going out of his mind temporarily?

Offline RicoS321

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Re: 4th place??
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2020, 04:51:21 PM »
Other than massively increasing the number of teams relegated, how would anyone avoid the "meaningless game" scenario in an 18/20 team league? Surely there are meaningless games in England, Germany and Spain every year but I don't see much clamour there to go down to 10 or 12 teams.

They're established league setups. We'd be effectively starting fresh, so we should be looking to do something different and better. 14 games is a hell of a long run to be not at significant risk of relegation but unable to reach Europe. Even yer mid tablers in England can dream about going on a run that'll get them into Europe. It's being designed solely to ensure 4 scum games too, we really need to move away from that nonsense way of running our game as soon as possible. Now is the time to experiment and take any financial hit as we're already asking players to take a cut in salary. We'll really see what a farse our game is when behind closed doors games begin. Let's make it about sport and not who has the most money

Offline wee toon red

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Re: 4th place??
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2020, 10:33:20 PM »
They're established league setups. We'd be effectively starting fresh, so we should be looking to do something different and better. 14 games is a hell of a long run to be not at significant risk of relegation but unable to reach Europe. Even yer mid tablers in England can dream about going on a run that'll get them into Europe. It's being designed solely to ensure 4 scum games too, we really need to move away from that nonsense way of running our game as soon as possible. Now is the time to experiment and take any financial hit as we're already asking players to take a cut in salary. We'll really see what a farse our game is when behind closed doors games begin. Let's make it about sport and not who has the most money
You don't need to sell a revolution based on sporting fairness to me. Personally I'd go full NFL, with youth development delegated to around 6-8 regions of the country and draft allocations once players reach 21, salary caps, all transfer fees from players sold to foreign leagues centralised and reinvested in facilities etc.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 10:36:21 PM by wee toon red »
Can you blame the man for going out of his mind temporarily?

Offline RicoS321

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Re: 4th place??
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2020, 11:20:04 PM »
You don't need to sell a revolution based on sporting fairness to me. Personally I'd go full NFL, with youth development delegated to around 6-8 regions of the country and draft allocations once players reach 21, salary caps, all transfer fees from players sold to foreign leagues centralised and reinvested in facilities etc.

Oucha, now we're talking. Interesting. I'd probably support other Scottish teams in Europe if that happened.