DonsTalk

Main Board => Off Topic => Topic started by: BigAl on March 04, 2020, 11:45:19 AM

Title: Coronavirus
Post by: BigAl on March 04, 2020, 11:45:19 AM
Mmm, getting a bit close to home.

Confirmed case in Kilmarnock and a sheltered housing scheme in lock down.

Testing centre set up at Crosshouse Hospital.

Cue the cranking up of panic.

Still astounded that some folk need told they should always wash their hands after going to the toilet  ::)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 04, 2020, 11:57:07 AM
This whole Coronavirus issue stinks. Ok, it's been hard to believe anything the government and the globalist agenda tells us and there is always the crying wolf thing to be aware of but what's really happening here? I don't trust the media either but the same pattern of spreading fear is again in operation and we know what happens when austerity is imposed and economic slowdown is given as the reason. The gap has been getting wider but when will the majority revolt, assuming they're still able to, if their processed foods, their obesity and their engineered divisions haven't disqualified them from doing anything at all?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on March 04, 2020, 09:27:05 PM
Supposedly a case in Aberdeen.

Lots of folk keen on reality checks - not as serious as other health issues, etc... it’s all blown out of proportion etc...

However surely the point is that as there’s no vaccine it’s only going to put a strain on a countries health service, as each person on average passes it on to 2.5 people, and the mortality rate is higher than influenza. So it does need to be nipped in the bud pretty sharpish.

Can see Olympics being pulled.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on March 05, 2020, 12:41:59 PM
Costco in Aberdeen was rammed full this morning with people panic buying due to Coronavirus.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 05, 2020, 01:30:30 PM
The wife just said that Asda had sold out of soap today. The wifie working there told her that some wifie shopper came in and bought 10 x Dettol liquid soaps earlier. Now what sort of moron does that and did these people never wash their hands before? Fucking panic-buying and fear abounds, unsurprisingly. as people are mostly morons.

But I still can't work out the underlying agenda. The report in the Times this morning - that Parliament was considering shutting at the end of this month - has been disputed by the government but there's something going on.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Tyrant on March 05, 2020, 02:57:53 PM
Supposedly a case in Aberdeen.

Lots of folk keen on reality checks - not as serious as other health issues, etc... it’s all blown out of proportion etc...

However surely the point is that as there’s no vaccine it’s only going to put a strain on a countries health service, as each person on average passes it on to 2.5 people, and the mortality rate is higher than influenza. So it does need to be nipped in the bud pretty sharpish.

Can see Olympics being pulled.


False. What paper do you buy?  ::)

Symptoms and mortality rate of Coronavirus significantly less severe than influenza. 92,000 people worldwide have it. On a planet of 7 billion. It's hardly affecting children and the only people dying are those that would die if they caught influenza anyway. So like Rocket I'm asking myself why is it exactly that every media outlet on earth (seemingly) is trying to make us shit ourselves over this? It hasn't worked on me. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 05, 2020, 03:17:14 PM
The announcement (by WHO possibly) that 12 billion is being made available to combat this is interesting. Who thinks every dollar of this will be properly spent? Who thinks it will even be audited? There's another 11 figure sum (10 bn+) of public funds getting misappropriated, big pharma, private and public health organisations, new quangos and support groups including consultancy fees and focus groups all getting hand outs. Not to mention the individuals in public office who will benefit directly and indirectly.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on March 05, 2020, 05:03:53 PM

False. What paper do you buy?  ::)

Symptoms and mortality rate of Coronavirus significantly less severe than influenza. 92,000 people worldwide have it. On a planet of 7 billion. It's hardly affecting children and the only people dying are those that would die if they caught influenza anyway. So like Rocket I'm asking myself why is it exactly that every media outlet on earth (seemingly) is trying to make us shit ourselves over this? It hasn't worked on me.

Clearly you do not understand what mortality rate means.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/03/yes-worse-than-flu-busting-coronavirus-myths-covid-19
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Ten Caat on March 05, 2020, 05:42:46 PM
It's already too late to stop this becoming a pandemic. What's more...it's a bloody godsend to the world.

Nature always finds a way of reducing the earth's population when it soars to unmanageable levels. The 2 world wars killed off  many millions.. and just over 100 years ago Spanish flu wiped out 50 million

Modern medicine ( particularly better control of coronary heart disease/ hypertension and effective treatments for most cancers) has allowed the average life expectancy to rise rapidly in the past 40 years. In the UK it's went up from roughly 72 to about 80 for men and frm about 74 to 84 for women. But in doing so has caused a dementia crisis and there just isn't the infrastructure to properly care for all  these extra frail people. Covid-19 could prove the answer to a headache that successive governments have failed to address.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on March 05, 2020, 11:09:07 PM
It's already too late to stop this becoming a pandemic. What's more...it's a bloody godsend to the world.

Nature always finds a way of reducing the earth's population when it soars to unmanageable levels. The 2 world wars killed off  many millions.. and just over 100 years ago Spanish flu wiped out 50 million

Modern medicine ( particularly better control of coronary heart disease/ hypertension and effective treatments for most cancers) has allowed the average life expectancy to rise rapidly in the past 40 years. In the UK it's went up from roughly 72 to about 80 for men and frm about 74 to 84 for women. But in doing so has caused a dementia crisis and there just isn't the infrastructure to properly care for all  these extra frail people. Covid-19 could prove the answer to a headache that successive governments have failed to address.

Not to mention the impact it is having on pollution what with China shutting down lots of factories, streets of several major cities seeing significant decrease in number of vehicles, and of course the number of poeple cancelling their holidays abroad.

I might start getting worried when the nurses & paramedics I know start to act concerned but then again I might not. After all Im contributing to the destruction fo the planet just by living my current life so should Death/ Mother nature see fit to have another crack at taking me down and actually succeed this time (7th times a charm) then so be it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: scotfree on March 11, 2020, 06:18:06 AM
An interesting site  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Madbadteacher on March 11, 2020, 06:10:46 PM
Just a thought.....
With some UEFA second leg games being played behind closed doors who do we think the first team to claim that as an “unfair sporting disadvantage “ having had the away leg in front of “hostile” fans?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Ten Caat on March 11, 2020, 06:57:36 PM
Just a thought.....
With some UEFA second leg games being played behind closed doors who do we think the first team to claim that as an “unfair sporting disadvantage “ having had the away leg in front of “hostile” fans?

I'm not at all convinced that many...if any...second leg games will actually take place. The situation is rapidly evolving and we already know that 2 first round games are not going ahead in Milan and Sevilla. UEFA have an absolute nightmare to sort this out.

I also have a feeling that our game against 'Well on Friday along with the rest of the weekend games will be the last we see of football taking place in Scotland till early April at the earliest. The only sensible decision I can see is for UEFA to postpone the Euro Championships until summer 2021. This might allow a bit of breathing space for the Champions and Europa Leagues to complete and allow domestic competitions to extend into June if necessary. Perhaps with a stipulation that once a team are mathematically champions and also team(s) at the bottom are mathematically relegated that the competition stops at that point. Of course it could well conspire that the full programme might need to be played to reach one or both of these ( the relegation battle in the SPL here does look like it might go all the way to the last day even if Hearts lose tonight and start looking a bit isolated)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 11, 2020, 07:18:42 PM
Exactly, we should stop right now and relegate hearts, with our game against Motherwell on Friday being allowed to go ahead as a third place decider. Although given that we have also been given a cup win under this scenario, based on the alphabet, then maybe we can allow the Motherwell tinks their third place trophy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LA-Don on March 11, 2020, 08:27:58 PM
My school has closed starting Monday, spring break in two weeks, I expect to be off at least a month. Other schools doing the same. Youths sporting events, leagues etc shutting down. I expect a full lock down coming. 1000 known cases in a country of 330 million, form your own opinions....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: scotfree on March 13, 2020, 12:52:26 AM
That's the Australian GP cancelled.
It was also the start of the rugby league and Australian rules this week. I would take it that these will be cancelled soon as well.
My wife is a nurse at the local hospital so that's going to make it interesting. I'm not worried about myself as such, but my mum is in her 70's now and she has had problems with chest infections in the recent past. My wife's mum and dad are well up there in age-wise as well (75/83).
Interesting days...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 13, 2020, 01:26:42 AM
The football postponements in most European countries now, the golf events being cancelled and everything else is in the last couple of days are massive moves which are going to have huge impacts on the economies of every country. The restrictions on travel are last resort measures which are going to have deep impacts very quickly. The poor monkeys in Thailand are having gang wars amongst each other because there aren't the daily streams of tourists there to give them their daily food. THAT is how serious this is.

Here in the UK, we know nothing. We must be in the relegation zone of the league table of preparedness and that guy on Question Time and the audience were coming out with amazing examples of our government's ineptitude, particularly to our lack of testing in the early days and over the last five weeks. Now our PM is telling us that we WILL lose loved ones. And what the fuck is he doing about it? What the fuck has he done about it?

My wife is waiting for redeployment, not because she has been told this but because she has forty years experience of healthcare and knows how fucking pathetic our response has been. We won't have the staff. Close the schools and who's going to look after the kids? Simple critical thinking hasn't been done. There's been zero due diligence and forward planning done and we are reacting the whole time, on a minute-by-minute basis.

The panic buyers make me vomit. We expect everyone to be selfish, that's human nature but we are seeing the sickness of our Tory-managed UK being acted out on a grand scale currently. It's going to get a whole lot worse real quick, at an accelerating pace.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 13, 2020, 08:00:00 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/JasonReidUK/status/1237830209904283648
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 13, 2020, 09:44:45 AM
This was my daughter answering one of my questions: -

It jumped over from an animal to us through close contact/ maybe consumption of the meat which is something viruses (specifically RNA viruses) are known to do. HIV, Ebola, SARS, swine flue and bird flu are all the same. There have been warnings for years from viral epidemiologists about the possibility of this happening, and studies estimating how quickly it could spread/ mutate and cause a pandemic - they’ve been publishing papers and talking about it, but few have been interesting/ listening. If anything, we are lucky covid isn’t more deadly (but being so new in humans, the odds of it continuing to change and possibly become more deadly is worryingly high). This is an area of research that’s been chronically underfunded. Big pharma don’t love vaccines cause once a disease is eradicated no more money can be made (though almost everyone has to take it for it to work, so certainly CAN make money) but, more importantly, investors are short sighted here. The success story/ money spinner is “look at this disease we cured/ reduced rates of” not “look at this disease we prevented from happening.” If you put money into preventing a global pandemic, did your investment work or was it never going to happen anyway? That quote I used in my Max P essay: when you do things right, people aren’t sure you haven’t done anything at all

As someone with first class honours in virology and stratified medicine and a Ph.D. in public health, she's working in this field so is at least qualified to know a bit about it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 13, 2020, 09:59:39 AM
This may be of interest too: -

After the SARS outbreak in the early 2000s research for a vaccine started. It was much more deadly so symptoms were more severe and it was easier to track and quarantine cases/ reduce spread which is why it ultimately exhausted itself. The thing is, once SARS died out, no one cared to keep funding this research. The only other human coronaviruses at the time caused mild/ self-limiting colds - no interest or money to be made in that. So this area of virology had been relatively untouched/ with much less attention and vaccines left half-developed. I don’t know specifics for covid, but I know it can be tricky to target. Often viruses enter Human cells via receptors and “live” inside the human cell. (Whether or not viruses constitute living things is another debate haha). When you’re a virus, hiding in a cell, it’s very hard for the immune system to recognise the infected cells and kill them appropriately. Developing a treatment has to be a trade off between identifying and killing infected cells while limiting damage to healthy/ uninfected cells. Vaccines are better than treatments because they limit the number of viruses that ever enter your cells in the first place but they’re hard to develop because they’re “training” your immune system - but immune systems are complex. If we understood them, there would be no allergies/ asthma/ rheumatoid arthritis/ Crohn’s disease etc. If you train the immune system to recognise an antigen/ marker with too little specificity, you risk a) it does nothing b) you accidentally train it to target itself and you end up dying by your own cells attacking you. You can also have problems even when the target is right: in an early Dengue fever vaccine, it was specific enough to the virus, but instead of making the immune system appropriately respond to and kill the virus, it caused the body to go into anaphylactic shock, essentially over reacting to the virus and causing death. Covid isn’t a virus that we seem get lasting immunity to (unlike chicken pox which you catch once - it’s more like norovirus. Your immunity to noro wanes after about one year)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 13, 2020, 10:03:56 AM
She lost me here (in the family chat): -

Mum is right! RNA is a bit like DNA - genetic information. But in human cells RNA kind of ‘copies’ DNA and transmits information from your genome to the parts of the cells that makes proteins/ perform other tasks (that’s maybe a bit simplistic, there are lots of types of RNA that do lots of things). DNA is very highly regulated because if there’s a mistake in your genes, it can have dire consequences. RNA is less regulated cause the occasional mistake/ incorrect protein to come out of it isnt likely to have a noticeable effect. Some viruses have RNA genomes which means they can mutate much more quickly than those with DNA ones
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on March 13, 2020, 06:21:24 PM
It’s all quite something. I think I can understand the current UK “plan” if it is all about trying to minimise the effect this will have on the NHS.

But I did find this to be a good read:
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 13, 2020, 07:42:02 PM
My daughter posted up that article last night, well, at 1 a.m. but I hadn't got round to reading it until now. Having glanced through some of the comments that the article attracted, I'm going to be interested in her take on it. The thing I took from it the most is the need for swift action, like immediately.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 13, 2020, 07:58:18 PM
As there's no live sport to gorge on tonight, I recommend the Channel 4 News Special starting at 8 pm. Are we doing enough?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 13, 2020, 08:10:05 PM
I didn't understand this post when she said it;

Boris is wrong about his herd immunity take, it will put more people at risk and we have no evidence to suggest that people have lasting immunity to it so unlikely to be effective

Now that they're talking about this exact subject on Channel 4, I'm inclined not to believe the balloon on TV just now who's job it is to know about this shit.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 13, 2020, 08:18:42 PM
Wow! Tomas Pueyo, the author of that article on air from the US arguing strongly with the studio scientist!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 13, 2020, 09:47:14 PM
I didn't understand this post when she said it;

Boris is wrong about his herd immunity take, it will put more people at risk and we have no evidence to suggest that people have lasting immunity to it so unlikely to be effective

Now that they're talking about this exact subject on Channel 4, I'm inclined not to believe the balloon on TV just now who's job it is to know about this shit.

How could it work? Surely herd immunity requires global herd immunity? I don't get it. Unless we're closing all borders until there's a vaccine? Is this nae yer basic smallpox training? I'm probably missing something.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Ten Caat on March 13, 2020, 10:11:09 PM
Tbf no one knows how this is going to pan out. The herd immunity theory is reasonable and yes there have been reports of sufferers becoming re-infected. However I suspect the actual truth might be that they hadn't really been recovered at all, just that their condition had improved somewhat and felt ok but the virus hadn't fully been eliminated from their body and as a result suffered a relapse.

It's way too late to stop this now anyway. By the time a sufferer starts to feel unwell, they've already been infectious for between 24-72 hours already and have probably infected 5 others minimum. A vaccine is being rushed through...several labs have one and it's in the animal testing stage but don't expect it to be available for at least 6 months, more likely nearer 12. Still a remarkably fast time to get a new product out on the market.

Deaths are inevitable in fairly large numbers but will mainly be in the elderly/physically infirm demographic. A few younger, utterly unexpected deaths will also occur but not in any significant numbers. Influenza claims a few "healthy" people every year. For most of us it will just be like a bad cold but there will be significant numbers of folk with pre-existing conditions that will require hospitalisation....respiratory tract diseases mainly but also diabetics, heart disease sufferers etc. What the NHS should be doing now is cancelling all elective surgery, except for those that are for life threatening conditions (cancer and certain heart ops mainly)....your hip replacements, varicose veins etc can all wait 6 months. Get the patients that are in hospital discharged the instant they are fit. Bed blockers should be discharged to the first available nursing home bed.....tough luck if it isn't close at hand to relatives. They can be moved into a closer home at a later date.

Stock up on cheap paracetamol and cough linctus. Don't waste your cash on expensive branded shit like lemsip. The biggest effects this pandemic will cause are economic. This is what governments are truly concerned about. The longer it lasts, more and more businesses will go bust. It will actually be quite "entertaining" watching holiday companies and airline go tits up fairly rapidly because of this.

Strap yourselves in. It's gonna be a bumpy ride.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Ten Caat on March 13, 2020, 10:17:01 PM
How could it work? Surely herd immunity requires global herd immunity? I don't get it. Unless we're closing all borders until there's a vaccine? Is this nae yer basic smallpox training? I'm probably missing something.

True herd immunity needs about 90-95% of the population inoculated (or naturally immune) to guarantee a communicable disease threat is contained. The numbers being bandied about are suggesting that if 60% of catch covid-19 and recover then we should have some sort of herd immunity. At those levels, the disease will still spread but should be manageable for some semblance of normality to return until the vaccine becomes generally available....as ive said before...its at least 6 months down the line, more likely nearer 12.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 13, 2020, 11:22:55 PM
True herd immunity needs about 90-95% of the population inoculated (or naturally immune) to guarantee a communicable disease threat is contained. The numbers being bandied about are suggesting that if 60% of catch covid-19 and recover then we should have some sort of herd immunity. At those levels, the disease will still spread but should be manageable for some semblance of normality to return until the vaccine becomes generally available....as ive said before...its at least 6 months down the line, more likely nearer 12.

"Some sort" of herd immunity? Surely there's either immunity or not? It suggests that whilst those 60% are gaining their immunity, those not immune could, at worst, die. It's not like you know who's going to be immune in advance. You also don't know how the remaining 40% will act or who they will interact with. You also have foreign people, who aren't part of this ridiculous experiment, still coming in and out of the country. It just sounds like utter horseshit.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: scotfree on March 13, 2020, 11:44:16 PM
Queensland Health has come out and said that they expect 25% of the population will come down with the virus. I was thinking that that was rather low. But when I think about it 25% of the Queensland population will be around 1.2 Million. They also said that 80% of the people who catch the virus would have only mild symptoms. So if I've not fucked up my maths that means around 300,000 are going to have a hard time. And with around a 10% fatality rate that means 30,000 fatalities. 

We had 264 deaths from the Flu last year.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 14, 2020, 12:00:39 AM
How could it work? Surely herd immunity requires global herd immunity? I don't get it. Unless we're closing all borders until there's a vaccine? Is this nae yer basic smallpox training? I'm probably missing something.

You're asking the wrong dude, dude. The first I'd ever heard the term "herd immunity" was in a text today and the second time I heard it was at 8.10 pm tonight on Channel 4.

It appears that the poster above and Boris know all about it however but I'm with you, my instinct is screaming total horseshit.

Four specific reasons to support my instinct on this point - other than the obvious consistency of instinct (over half a century experience in my case) - is that the guy arguing for it was a tit, Boris is a cunt, the guy who wrote a convincing argument was dead against it and finally, I trust my daughter, her intellect, experience and judgement in this particular field. And fifthly, good old fashioned integrity and common sense, which is none too common of course but in "leaders" like Boris (and Trump), is completely void.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 14, 2020, 12:02:41 AM
If I could isolate right now, I would but since my wife will inevitably be redeployed to the front line of the NHS, I'm at equal high risk. The UK needs to lock down right now. The guy on Question Time last night was bang on, despite Fiona's best BBC efforts to shut him up.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 14, 2020, 12:12:34 AM
Queensland Health has come out and said that they expect 25% of the population will come down with the virus. I was thinking that that was rather low. But when I think about it 25% of the Queensland population will be around 1.2 Million. They also said that 80% of the people who catch the virus would have only mild symptoms. So if I've not fucked up my maths that means around 300,000 are going to have a hard time. And with around a 10% fatality rate that means 30,000 fatalities. 

We had 264 deaths from the Flu last year.

24,000 fatalities @ 80% mild
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: scotfree on March 14, 2020, 12:46:29 AM
What the fuck.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/world/asia/coronavirus-china-conspiracy-theory.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: manc_don on March 14, 2020, 05:13:20 AM
Heard about that yesterday , hard to believe, but then again I don’t trust the yanks as far as I could throw them.

Nz has become the tightest in terms of their border control. All those entering from outside Nz (pacific island excluded) will have to self quarantine for 14 days . Starting tomorrow.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 14, 2020, 08:15:40 AM
You're asking the wrong dude, dude. The first I'd ever heard the term "herd immunity" was in a text today and the second time I heard it was at 8.10 pm tonight on Channel 4.

It appears that the poster above and Boris know all about it however but I'm with you, my instinct is screaming total horseshit

To be fair to ten cast, I thought he was explaining the decision rather than agreeing with it.

Anyway, I've thought some more and I still don't get it. These guys are scientists, so where the fuck is their published workings? I'm all for listening to experts, of course, but they shouldn't be immune to questioning or scrutiny (not even herd immune).

They're suggesting that 60% infections - but perhaps as high as 70% (wtf???) - would be required. If ~13% (based on statista 2018) are 70 or over and probably a few percent more classed as high risk, then they''re pretty much saying that everyone that can conceivably survive it not only needs to get it in order for the plan to work, but should be morally compelled to do so. Simultaneously, they're expected to diligently wash their hands and also isolate if they get the illness, thus preventing others from joining the herd immunity herd. But making sure you only speak to 'al cunts via the internet.

The thing that gets me is that we're asking the elderly and ill to isolate from the young. We're not all going to do it. It's the one instance where we all literally could have been "in it together", and we're choosing not to. I think we'll look back on this and see that we've performed a giant form of social/age cleansing. I think that we'll (and the US) be held up as the uncaring, selfish society that we are/have become. It'll be couched in denial and nationalism of course, but we'll all know that we sentenced our most vulnerable to death in order not to panic the markets or some fuck. Because even if you thought this herd bollocks had any chance of working, you'd err on the side of caution.

Whilst businesses and sporting bodies will do the government's job mostly for them on this one by telling employees to work at home or cancelling events, the government is needed to make sure folk get paid, mortgage or rent payments suspended and such like, so it's absolutely vital that those in charge get their shit together. They're probably genuinely concerned that the veil of the economic system is thrown off for all to see, where you simply can just say "nobody has to pay their mortgage today" and it happens, and that there is - after all - a magic money tree.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on March 14, 2020, 08:21:23 AM
I know nothing about how it will all pan out, but don't trust the mop headed idiot in the slightest and am quite sure he is hoping to see large numbers of people dead from this.  The interesting bit of this for me is how uncomfortable the guy from Public Health England looks when speaking alongside Boris. Looks like a man not used to telling large scale lies.

Also, do we really want to hear from experts with titles? I for one don't, these guys don't get their titles for nothing, they get them for going along with the spin the are told too. We seem to ve heading in a direction away from other countries who have had some success with the measures they have taken.

I feel the economic impact will be worse than the impact to the public health and could take us years to recover.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: scotfree on March 14, 2020, 08:43:35 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSXIetP5iak

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Ten Caat on March 14, 2020, 09:44:51 AM
I absolutely wasn't saying I'm agreeing with anything, but to put any blame on Boris for what is happening is also pretty ridiculous. He's a journalist turned politician. He's taking his instructions from the Chief Medical Officers of the various constituent countries of the UK.....with no professional insight into it what else can he do but just trust it and hope for the best.

When I  said "some form of herd immunity"....as I stated before....true herd immunity requires about 90-95% (preferably the upper) to be inoculated or have some acquired prior immunity (can be gained by suffering an infection and recovering) to a communicable disease to guarantee that mass outbreaks cannot happen. Computerised projections cast the worst case scenario in the UK that 80% of the population could catch this thing. Why? because it's a totally new disease to humans. There is no current inoculation available to prevent it (although various labs have created one, its being tested on animals right now). As with the last world infection crisis...the AIDS epidemic of the mid 80s...there will be a derogation from normal testing regimes which generally take 3 years or so to bring a new medicine to the market in order to get this vaccination out there asap. ^ months minimum, more likely nearer 12 though. Now I don't believe for a minute that 80% of us will catch this. But right now with nothing to treat it effectively it will for sure infect swathes of us. Those who require hospitalisation right now are purely treated on a symptomatic support regime....to make that simple, all we can do at present is attend to the symptoms and hope that it keeps a person alive long enough until the person's own immune system creates enough antibodies by itself to fight the disease off.

And RS....I'm a fairly recently retired nurse manager by profession. I have more insight into it than Joe Public for sure but don't claim to be an expert. I am standing by to be recalled to the front-line as this will put mahoosive pressure on the NHS as your wife will know. The Italian Health service (which btw is far better resourced than ours) it at breaking point. All leave has been cancelled there, in the north where the concentration of infections have taken place medical and paramedical staff are starting to drop like flies through sheer exhaustion. How the gvt deals with bring back retired nurses isn't quite as simple as it sounds. We have to re-register evry 3 years, self certifying that we have completed at least the minimum required professional updates/training. Ive retired so let my registration lapse at its last renewal. I obviously cannot meet the updates stipulation...and I certainly aint paying to do a refresher course (nor my registration fees) even if they could organise such courses for people like me at short notice. If the worst comes to the worst they'll have to derogate from this and just bring us back regardless. Im sure most of us retirees would be happy to help but not to pay through the nose for the privelige….
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 14, 2020, 10:08:47 AM
Good stuff TC, I'm fairly certain you'll just get thrown back in at the deep end without concern for registration! Good for you like, I wouldn't fancy it (but would do it if I had the ability).

Your saying that you don't believe that anywhere near 80% will catch it, but the herd strategy requires that somewhere near that figure get it. Without an NHS-overwhelming number getting it, the herd immunity won't work. In order for it to work, a large number of people must die at a 1% mortality rate. That's fairly fucked up.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Ten Caat on March 14, 2020, 11:30:06 AM
Yep but it's why the government now actually want us to catch it in very large numbers....just spread out over months rather than weeks. The general idea being that once we've had it and recovered, we can get back to normal life sharpish. If 60% of us got it then for sure herd immunity hasn't been achieved per se...but at those levels any future spread will start to wane naturally and pretty rapidly to manageable levels until the vaccine is available. There are reports of some sufferers being reinfected and whilst this is concerning, it's in relatively small numbers and I actually think what will be proven eventually is that these aren't re-infections at all, rather that the person was acutely ill, seemed to improve as their body fought the infection off but actually didn't clear it fully and the virus re-established itself. This happens in a small number of any infective disease. Actually happens very commonly in elderly females who get bladder infections (although these are almost 100% bacterial infections) and no amount of antibiotics seems to shift the residual infection. Btw for the uninitiated....some people ask why don't antibiotics work against covid-19. The answer lies in the nature of what a virus is. Viruses are animal in nature. Bacteria are vegetable. Antibiotics only work for bacterial infections. Now we do have a limited number of anti-viral medications...the AIDS crisis in the 80s brought about their development fairly rapidly. But unlike most antibiotics which are effective against a number of different bacterial infections (theyre called broad spectrum antibiotics...the penicillin group being the most famous) , anti-virals on the whole seem to act more specifically. And theyre also a lot more expensive than antibiotics. Vaccination is therefore the best route to go down to eventually eliminate this rather than developing a new anti-viral which could take years.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 14, 2020, 11:32:18 AM
Further posts from the virology and public health expert in our family;

"Watching the C4 news thing and frustrated that no one is pointing out why herd immunity is such a risky strategy for covid. Known coronaviruses only have lasting immunity for 3 months! So if everyone gets infected, then there will still be no herd immunity because people will start becoming susceptible again".

After my wife said - "I think the guy from America expressed his thoughts on herd immunity by his gestures alone 🤦🏻" - my daughter said - "He talked more about the infection rate, the thing that the London tropical medicine guy seems to be missing is the point that herd immunity can only be possible if people who are infected develop lasting immunity and we have no evidence for that being the case".


The bottom line is that we lay people don't understand this field and we need to rely on our leaders to protect us. Our "leaders", including the wank from the government on QT this week don't understand the situation either. They are quick to mention "the science" and naturally they acknowledge that they're being advised. So the WHOLE ISSUE relies on whether the advice that they're acting on is good or bad.

Like everything, there are differing opinions. In something as crucial as a pandemic, we can't afford to get it wrong. The UK is engaging a strategy that no other country is doing. Either our advisers to our government are cleverer than every other scientist on the planet or they're fools who are committing a major capital crime, for which the PM is ultimately culpable. Negligence is well defined in law and choosing to act on bad advice is no defence to a result of a million of our citizens being wiped out, should this come to pass. There would be something in law termed strict liability applying here, particularly when the PM has been advised strongly and vehemently by others not to follow this strategy and there is no precedent, medically or otherwise to choose to rely on it. It's a highly dangerous and risky strategy that may have dire consequences. I just hope his "Brexit thinking", born from a sense of ignorance and arrogance that "Great Britain is greater than everyone else" isn't behind him choosing to be the outlier here.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 14, 2020, 11:59:39 AM
In the worst case scenario, that the UK's strategy results in our people suffering a massively disproportionate death rate, the biggest nail in Boris's coffin (legally speaking) will be the credentials of the people he chose to ignore. The guy Ryan at WHO didn't miss in his press conference yesterday. They have been screaming for action and he made some excellent points about inaction, leadership and human nature.

Three further reasons that concern me about the UK outlier strategy are as follows: -

Our PM himself. He has a track record of lying, he's a man on the make with zero integrity. He's also not very bright but skews and hides this by having learned oratory skills in his public schooling and university days. His blustering buffoon act is uniquely his, a disguise and a mask he wears but underneath this he is convinced of his own superiority, although his career and life record and especially his total lack of achievement (other than political office) proves otherwise.

Secondly, what our health professionals say. 99% of NHS staff know that we are underprepared. That's the percentage that the Channel 4 survey found and whilst TC may be in the 1%, it is fact that our front line staff have been measured for the protective suits (weeks ago in some cases) and have failed to get them, meanwhile infected patients are turning up at their doors.

Thirdly, the Irish company who have developed a self testing kit (which can tell in ten minutes) have been ignored by Boris. They've sent 20,000 to South Korea but we don't want to know. I don't get how identifying those amongst us who are infected already can NOT be a good thing. I fear this is one more concrete example of our government being unfit for purpose.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Ten Caat on March 14, 2020, 12:04:37 PM
Not entirely true about the known coronaviruses RS. The common cold and influenza are both coronaviruses for example.

Taking them individually...influenza is the more "serious". But there are relatively few strains of influenza, tending to keep themselves to fairly specific areas of the globe that don't spread in epidemic numbers to other areas ; compared to the common cold...which really are thousands  of different viruses that all produce roughly the same symptoms if infecting us. And all viruses have to mutate to survive. They'd die off if they didn't....once we have had one we have our antibodies that would prevent further infection. Now in the case of influenza....it takes around 8-12 years on average to fully mutate into a totally new strain. Until it does so...if you have had influenza you have the inherent resistance to it that means you cant get it again until its fully mutated. Flu vaccinations are made up of 3 strains of deactivated virus ....they always contain last years main infective strain plus a couple of others that virologists "best guess" that they think might take hold.

There's no common cold vaccine purely because there are just far too many viruses that cause it to make one both clinically and cost effective. Nevertheless..the common cold can and does claim lives every year. Just pretty much all within the elderly or people with serious co morbidities. We can certainy get 3 or 4 colds in a year...each one caused by a different strain of virus

Now we think that covid-19 is a similar acting virus to that which caused SARS back in the early 2000s (was it 2001 off the top of my head?) Still too early in the progression to tell....but if it is then the immunity will be much the same as it is for influenza. So years rather than months, possibly permanent,
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on March 14, 2020, 12:10:51 PM
In the worst case scenario, that the UK's strategy results in our people suffering a massively disproportionate death rate, the biggest nail in Boris's coffin (legally speaking) will be the credentials of the people he chose to ignore. The guy Ryan at WHO didn't miss in his press conference yesterday. They have been screaming for action and he made some excellent points about inaction, leadership and human nature.

Three further reasons that concern me about the UK outlier strategy are as follows: -

Our PM himself. He has a track record of lying, he's a man on the make with zero integrity. He's also not very bright but skews and hides this by having learned oratory skills in his public schooling and university days. His blustering buffoon act is uniquely his, a disguise and a mask he wears but underneath this he is convinced of his own superiority, although his career and life record and especially his total lack of achievement (other than political office) proves otherwise.

Secondly, what our health professionals say. 99% of NHS staff know that we are underprepared. That's the percentage that the Channel 4 survey found and whilst TC may be in the 1%, it is fact that our front line staff have been measured for the protective suits (weeks ago in some cases) and have failed to get them, meanwhile infected patients are turning up at their doors.

Thirdly, the Irish company who have developed a self testing kit (which can tell in ten minutes) have been ignored by Boris. They've sent 20,000 to South Korea but we don't want to know. I don't get how identifying those amongst us who are infected already can NOT be a good thing. I fear this is one more concrete example of our government being unfit for purpose.

I have to agree with what you have written. Boris being in charge is what scares me most. Even if it killed 90% of the population, he would still think he did great by saving 10% of us.

The NHS will do its best, but 10 years of austerity will really come back and bite us on the arse over the next few months.

Strong and stable government right enough!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 14, 2020, 12:34:55 PM
I have to agree with what you have written. Boris being in charge is what scares me most. Even if it killed 90% of the population, he would still think he did great by saving 10% of us.

The NHS will do its best, but 10 years of austerity will really come back and bite us on the arse over the next few months.

Strong and stable government right enough!

The NHS are vulnerable to collapse very quickly. For a start we have half the amount of beds and respirators available per capita than Italy, who are already making decisions on who to let die (plus they've reduced the exponential curve by following world advice and locking down). That's just one example of our underresourcing. Our staff are ill-equipped and already insufficient in number, exactly for the reason you said, austerity and cuts over the whole of the last decade.

The sickest joke is money before people. It won't be obvious to most, including those who are working and who have worked in the NHS that for 20+ years, our successive governments, in tandem with the corporates, have been attempting to privatise the NHS by stealth. Pilger's superb documentary was aired 3 months ago. By flooding the staff with non-productive middle management and increased administration and wasting money by over-charging for external services, the introduction of PFI's are being facilitated by a reduction of core resources, the worst examples being the rape by big pharma. My wife is forced to pay £60k per patient p.a. for the same treatments that Australia pays $250 p.a. for, from the same company, for the exact same drugs. And nobody in government cares and the bureaucrats aren't listening to the specialists and are ignoring our consultants, the best medically qualified people to know.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 14, 2020, 01:21:29 PM
TC, your very first sentence proves that you are, like the rest of us including our leaders, not expert in this field.

"Flu is not caused by coronavirus. It is caused by influenza viridae (i.e. the flu virus). It is very distinct from coronavirus, though some aspects of them can be interesting to compare (e.g. flu also doesn’t have lasting immunity, which is why there are new flu vaccines each year). Common cold is caused by a few different viruses, some of which are coronaviruses. Also rhinoviruses (rhino meaning nose here, as it gives you a runny nose!) and a few others.

He is right that antibiotics do not work against viral infections because viruses and bacteria are totally different entities. The idea that viruses are animal based and bacteria are plant based is complete bollocks though, no clue where that came from. The first virus ever identified actually infected tobacco plants".


I could give you the whole text but what's the point?

"Some of this is reasonable speculation and some is bullshit and the fact that he is stating some nonsense as fact would make me doubt his credibility overall. It annoys me that he keeps talking with authority but is getting some things totally backwards. Not all of it mind you - some of it is right or nearly right. My assessment is that the person posting this has some knowledge on the topic, but they know far less than they think they do!"


Edit: you said "for the uninitiated" which expressly states that YOU are part of the initiated. A nurse manager (retired) is not a virologist. Stop trying to come across as knowing more than you do. It's ugly to witness and further, your inability to think and write with simplicity and clarity is hard work to endure.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Ten Caat on March 14, 2020, 03:02:42 PM
Viruses are absolutely animal in nature. They can infect plants. They consist of DNA or RNA inside a protein wall. There is indeed some debate in the scientific community if viruses are truly a lifeform at all. They can only survive for any length of time and certainly only reproduce themselves by invading a host.

Bacteria are absolutely vegetable in nature. They can infect animals. They have a cell wall with cytotoplasm and can exist independently and reproduce without the necessity to infect a living host.

Would you agree that fungi are vegetable in nature? You are bound to agree that animals get fungal infections? Your missus has probably had thrush at some point in life. A vegetable infecting a human...who knew it?

And no I'm not a virologist. And I'll tell you my source for saying this. We had a lecture from Dr G. Petrie ex consultant chest physician in my 3rd year of General nurse trainng, 1987.....prior to placement in Chest Unit Cameron Hospital Windygates.

If you dont like what Ive posted...block me you boring irritating little cunt. 

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Ten Caat on March 14, 2020, 03:03:17 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 14, 2020, 03:43:18 PM
.
If you dont like what Ive posted...block me you boring irritating little cunt.

I don't like or dislike what you post. I'm just pointing out that you speak shite. On everything.

The reason you do is that you are uneducated. It takes a certain intellect and discipline to learn things, qualities you don't have. It eats you up - that you're unqualified in everything - but your attempts to present yourself as knowledgeable don't wash, as my daughter proved right now.

You showed great geopolitical nous with your racist rant re the Muslims in the Balkans. You show medical fuckwittery right now but most of all, it's your educational subnormality resulting in your craving to present yourself as better than you are that is as tragic as it is comic. Thae Greeks were clever cunts  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Ten Caat on March 14, 2020, 03:53:38 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 15, 2020, 12:37:49 PM
One of the biggest handicaps facing the UK is the Health Minister. Hancock makes Hunt look good and amongst the doctors, Hunt was the least popular in living memory.

The problem with Hancock is that he's an exceptionally stupid man. He has today on the Marr show just ripped up what the chief government scientists have been saying as he has denied the herd immunity strategy.

Even though one poster on this thread seeks to absolve our equally stupid PM of any responsibility whatsoever, it was Boris who appointed Hancock. The South Korean Health Minister (interviewed by Marr by satellite) was an articulate clear thinker. Our government still don't know what they're doing and the contrast between her and Hancock could not have been more stark.

START TESTING PEOPLE FOR FUCK SAKE. It's beyond belief that we are this shambolic and incapable of coherence, both in strategy and communications.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 15, 2020, 04:27:29 PM
67% increase in UK deaths from 21 to 35 announced just now.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on March 15, 2020, 09:31:04 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/15/uk-coronavirus-crisis-to-last-until-spring-2021-and-could-see-79m-hospitalised
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 15, 2020, 09:39:33 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/15/trump-offers-large-sums-for-exclusive-access-to-coronavirus-vaccine
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 15, 2020, 09:44:11 PM
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/15/epidemiologist-britain-herd-immunity-coronavirus-covid-19?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet&__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 16, 2020, 10:10:26 AM
How long before the UK government roll back their strategy and replace with one that every other country is doing, whilst pretending that was their idea all along? They've already consigned 1000s to die by not acting quick enough as part of their herd strategy which wasn't really their strategy at all it was just something Boris made sound like a strategy by saying it was a plan. The worrying thing for me is that the Scottish government seem to be following suit. There are enough experts saying that is a bucket of absolute horse shite that there should be more dissent from SNP ministers. If Jeremy Fuckstain Cunt can criticise his own government, we surely should be hearing more from our own ministers. Sturgeon will have a lot to answer for too at this rate, I don't think you can hide behind Westminster on something this important.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 16, 2020, 11:04:14 AM
When the SFA know more than the government, you know we're in trouble!

They probably just followed other football authorities but in Nicola's case, I agree she should have broken rank. If you and I smelt shite, about something we had never heard of a week ago, in a field where we have no knowledge and expertise whatsoever, then every paid politician - who's job it is to protect us - should also have been questioning. The World Health Organisation were directly addressing the UK, other countries were halting the exponential nature of the natural growth curve and we had thousands of our own experts screaming No. Even a non-clinician was ranting on QT last week (although he at least had experience of office in public health).

Critical thinking path for sane people; Allow people to get sick, many turn up at hospitals, NHS can't cope, gross deaths.

As Fontaines D.C. would say, is it too real for ya?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 16, 2020, 11:13:29 AM
A further tragic indictment of the government's absolute incompetence thus far was their plea for our manufacturing industry to make respirators. A sane government would fund the extra capacity requirements of existing respirator manufacturers and would know that car makers and others, who have never produced highly specialised medical equipment are incapable of getting up to speed in the required time. One of the biggest acts of gross stupidity in political history.

Edit: NHS Grampian talk today; the one case in the Shell office in Aberdeen did not infect any colleague, nor did any of his family get it.

This virus can be contained if we don't cough on one another and exercise strict hygiene... but it would help if we know if we have it or not. There is no sensible reason not to test and failing to lock down is negligent beyond belief.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 16, 2020, 12:45:06 PM
Fuck this. I'm going out in the community to spend money with people who won't have any income after this week. I don't know if we should all be self-isolating but it's not my job to know. The biggest worry for me is that our government don't know either and given that many of us don't trust them, it's a terrible situation to be in. My biggest concern right now is that the NHS gets overwhelmed pretty immediately. This doesn't appear to be the biggest concern for our "leaders", who are acting on advice that makes zero sense to a lay person like me. Spread love people. That's all we can do. Apart from to panic buyers. They're shit. Peace.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: baggy89 on March 16, 2020, 01:12:07 PM
Just back at work today after self-isolating/working from home last week.

Was out Friday all-day trains, restaurants, pubs etc then out Saturday same. Got home Saturday night my throat felt raw, really suddenly. Not one for pain killers, but had no choice wasn't sleeping without. Bit of a cough and sore throat next day, thought I've overdone it. Sunday evening shivery feverish, same all-day Monday. Bit wiped out Tuesday so phoned 111 on the basis, of what I do, should probably know for sure. 40 odd minutes of hold before ran off symptoms, got asked if I’d had various other symptoms a lot of which seemed irrelevant like, “have you lost a significant amount of weight recently?”?? got told I probably had a bug as symptoms for covid-19 were XXX which I had just told them I had. Son off school with similar sore throat, fever bit of a cough Thursday Friday. 

Don’t care if I had it or just a similar cold. Odd that they were quite clearly fobbing me off and given what I do I would have expected an interest in testing me. I had had direct contact with X frontline health and social care workers in the previous 10 days who themselves probably went on and had direct contact with X colleagues and X service users.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 16, 2020, 01:21:13 PM
I don't think you were supposed to phone 111....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 16, 2020, 02:01:09 PM
Odd that they were quite clearly fobbing me off

It's not odd at all. NHS 24 were trained and encouraged to fob people off. Our culture is to act only on the most extreme cases. It would have resulted in our eldest quine dying of a burst appendix if she wasn't so lucky to be home that week where her mother took control. It's another symptom of our government's priorities which does not include the welfare of the people.

Boris told us "loved ones will die". Hancock said "no number is too big". Not only are they headless chickening right now, they're not even careful with the language they use, spreading further panic and alarm.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: donsdaft on March 16, 2020, 04:52:42 PM
It's all bollocks, and when people find out it's all bollocks they are going to

1/ be fuckin annoyed.

2/ be grateful to the politicians who saved them.

Expect all propaganda to be aimed at achieving number 2
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 16, 2020, 05:31:30 PM
If it's all bollocks, the last hour and a half has shed some darkness.

The WHO Director General said "test test test".

Boris and his two arselicking sidekicks live just now are trying to make a TOTAL U-TURN from last Thursday and yet they STILL don't have the balls to go beyond "recommendations".

It's still a massive shitshow, both of policy and in communications. "Sir Patrick" is a fucking arse and right now, is failing to answer the (brilliant) question (re Herd Immunity and the reinfection case in Japan) BECAUSE HE DOESN'T KNOW and it's IMPOSSIBLE to know. His bluffing his way through this, as Boris is doing throughout, is going to be slated on social media soon (and yet the BBC will be spinning strongly in half an hour). Only Channel 4 will get close to the truth and even they are handicapped by severe legally-advised restraints.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 16, 2020, 06:24:04 PM
No mass gatherings (recommended, unsupported) and yet schools stay open.

The most hideous example of how stupid Boris and his sidekicks are.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 16, 2020, 06:29:02 PM
And by not enforcing the cancellation of mass gatherings, businesses won't be able to claim on their insurances (I think???)? Thus another fuck up. All because they don't want to do a u-turn. Instead they'll do an 83 point turn over the next few weeks and pretend that was the plan all along.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 16, 2020, 06:44:10 PM
67% increase in UK deaths from 21 to 35 announced just now.

Up to 55 today, more than 2.5 times more in 2 days... but only a 57% increase from yesterday so no doubt Dominic Cummings can spin that as a positive.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 16, 2020, 07:12:06 PM
No mass gatherings (recommended, unsupported) and yet schools stay open.

The most hideous example of how stupid Boris and his sidekicks are.

Which was EXACTLY what Jon Snow opened with and the first question Kathy Newman just asked this health minister bitch.

Edit: Kathy is NAILING this Helen bitch. We have "ramped up" testing from 5,000 to 6,000 apparently (still less than 0.0001% of the population) but she couldn't answer HOW we are testing in the community, coming back with more Tory bullshit and bluster.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on March 16, 2020, 07:18:37 PM
 Well do we feel more confident after hearing the three wise men speak this afternoon.

Bojo looked rattled, he knows he has screwed up and having to backtrack on previous advice given.

Just not good enough and when you see idiotic MPs on the news make arses of themselves like the lass on C4 news  just now it doesn't leave you with any confidence.

This should be about medical people and scientists with government clowns and spin doctors kept well away from anything
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 16, 2020, 07:46:10 PM
And by not enforcing the cancellation of mass gatherings, businesses won't be able to claim on their insurances (I think???)? Thus another fuck up. All because they don't want to do a u-turn. Instead they'll do an 83 point turn over the next few weeks and pretend that was the plan all along.

It won't be over "the next few weeks". I predict they'll close the schools within 72 hours. They have to. It's incongruous not to given the social distancing they're asking for. It will make them look like fools but nobody (apart from one former poster on here) is under any illusion that they're NOT fools.

Is there one non-fool in the whole cabinet? I can't think of one.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 16, 2020, 08:08:12 PM
It won't be over "the next few weeks". I predict they'll close the schools within 72 hours. They have to. It's incongruous not to given the social distancing they're asking for. It will make them look like fools but nobody (apart from one former poster on here) is under any illusion that they're NOT fools.

Is there one non-fool in the whole cabinet? I can't think of one.

Yes, schools will likely close by next week at the latest. I suspect head teachers and parents will overtake the government by removing kids etc, just like businesses were already getting people to work from home.

What I mean is the overall admission will take a few weeks. They'll slowly unwind everything done to date. I expect testing to increase and increase to get up to (or close to) the levels that should have occurred weeks ago, without admitting that should always have been the case. Similarly, testing on NHS workers. Also, I expect that advice will change from "people shouldn't go to theatres etc" to "theatres are now closed". This will occur after the point at which a significant portion of those establishments, and pubs and so on, will have already gone bust. Thus saving the lobbying insurance companies a fortune in bailout payments that would have been due if the government had done the correct thing from day one.

But, again, I could be talking shite. To me, everything just now points to economic decisions being made at every single point, over human decisions. Why would a government be so vague and non-binding about gatherings etc? This isn't incompetence, it's deliberate.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 16, 2020, 08:31:03 PM
To me, everything just now points to economic decisions being made at every single point, over human decisions. Why would a government be so vague and non-binding about gatherings etc? This isn't incompetence, it's deliberate.

That hadn't occurred to me (tonight, over the mass gatherings) but I fear you're right.

I wouldn't rule out incompetence too however. The urging of U.K. manufacturers to turn their production lines to building respirators was desperate stupidity and the "no number is too high" was a line that no businessman (or indeed anyone with a mild understanding of economics) would ever utter. I don't think he's got the brain to think through what he was saying. He may have been trying to peddle the lie that saving the people is their number one priority but it was an invitation to rape for any entrepreneur with a sniff of opportunism in his nostrils.

Edit: The west end already announced they were shutting all the theatres "based on government advice". They know who their market is and where their bread is buttered. Arselicking luvvies. My poor London-based daughter will miss out this week though but the show they were going to this week was probably one she'd seen already as she's always going.

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: baggy89 on March 16, 2020, 08:45:36 PM
Lad who play on my U15’s folks are both teachers. He said yesterday they thought Wednesday or Thursday at the latest.
Two teachers at my kids school off self-isolating, two of my sons mates are being kept home, one is of Chinese heritage whose parents own one of the local takeaways.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on March 16, 2020, 08:46:58 PM
Well do we feel more confident after hearing the three wise men speak this afternoon.

Bojo looked rattled, he knows he has screwed up and having to backtrack on previous advice given.

Just not good enough and when you see idiotic MPs on the news make arses of themselves like the lass on C4 news  just now it doesn't leave you with any confidence.

This should be about medical people and scientists with government clowns and spin doctors kept well away from anything

Personally I reckon the rattled look is more to do with him suddenly realising what being the leader (supposedly) of a country actually means.
Nothing like this has happened in my lifetime and the closest thing in living memory will have been the 2nd world war as that resulted in pain and suffering of UK citizens not just the soldiers in a far off land.

A simple movie quote that comes to mind is the scene between the Janitor and the Teacher in the Breakfast club
'Aw bullshit, man. Come on Vern, the kids haven't changed, you have! You took a teaching position, 'cause you thought it'd be fun, right? Thought you could have summer vacations off and then you found out it was actually work and that really bummed you out.

This prick like so many others who have gone into politics in my lifetime did it for the powergrab and the fact he didnt actually have to do anything as long as he played the character. No matter what he did he would be OK as he was 'in the club'
Now suddenly the hundreds of civil servants who have looked after him (and Cameron, and Blair) and made sure the place didnt go to shit havent got the answers, the 'club' is at serious risk of vanishing in an economic meltdown, and now its up to him and his immediate cronies to stand up and lead and protect the voters.

And when the shit hits the fan the person with the big personality and no substance gets fucked
The boring ones who have the guts and intelligence to actually make difficult decisions quickly whether they are popular or not are what you need but for so long this country (and so many others) have voted for the prick who shouts loudest and has the best soundbites.
I wonder what Gordon Brown, or John Major would do if they were in Johnson's position?

I'd like to think this will be a wake up call for everyone in the way our society has gone but I doubt it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: baggy89 on March 16, 2020, 09:31:55 PM
English FA put a stop to all grassroots fitba.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 16, 2020, 10:22:37 PM
It's already too late to stop this becoming a pandemic. What's more...it's a bloody godsend to the world.

Covid-19 could prove the answer to a headache that successive governments have failed to address.

You're on your own with that one you sick fuck.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 16, 2020, 10:27:26 PM
The longer it lasts, more and more businesses will go bust. It will actually be quite "entertaining" watching holiday companies and airline go tits up fairly rapidly because of this.

Yeah really entertaining. Fucking hilarious. Faisal Islam just now reporting on the bail outs the airlines are going to need. Tory icon Branson has already got his begging bowl out, aye for £35bn. That's £35,000,000,000.00 of our taxpayers money he's asking for. Brilliant.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 16, 2020, 10:35:54 PM
That hadn't occurred to me (tonight, over the mass gatherings) but I fear you're right.

I wouldn't rule out incompetence too however. The urging of U.K. manufacturers to turn their production lines to building respirators was desperate stupidity and the "no number is too high" was a line that no businessman (or indeed anyone with a mild understanding of economics) would ever utter. I don't think he's got the brain to think through what he was saying. He may have been trying to peddle the lie that saving the people is their number one priority but it was an invitation to rape for any entrepreneur with a sniff of opportunism in his nostrils.

Again, a deliberate call to arms for some of the Brexit supporting businesses, getting their payments for their support. It'll be a big manuacturer of some sort (not of health equipment), or along the lines of thon company they got to run the Brexit ferries.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 16, 2020, 10:47:02 PM
Again, a deliberate call to arms for some of the Brexit supporting businesses, getting their payments for their support. It'll be a big manuacturer of some sort (not of health equipment), or along the lines of thon company they got to run the Brexit ferries.

Aye the yet to be formed Grayling Gas Pumps will get the contract.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 16, 2020, 11:28:53 PM
English FA put a stop to all grassroots fitba.

I had hoped to go to Culter on Saturday but that fixture had been pulled. Desperate to fill my love of "live soccer", and with the Cove game at Cowdenbeath having suffered the cull, that's where I was planning to go. Of course I fucked up last Tuesday when planning to go to Stirling to see my first Cove away game by being too pussy based on a weather forecast and missed them scoring SEVEN but shit happens. It's not like the forecast was that bad, and improving during the day and compared to the first two visits to Balmoral Park, NOTHING could've been worse, the coldest bastard days I've watched fitba. Only the home v Hamilton in the Scottish Cup one January at Pittodrie compares (6,000 crowd only, 1-0 win, Josh P pulling the strings), a colder day than the new year game v St J when all the lights went out in the city.

So it's ALL fitba that has been sent to the grave :(
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 17, 2020, 01:24:41 AM
I recommend watching Contagion: The BBC Four Pandemic hosted by the wonderful Dr Hannah Fry. You'll get it on iPlayer. It was first aired two years ago, in March 2018.

It illustrates to me that we have some great minds in the U.K. but I'm not so sure that this present government and the titled chief of science and chief medical officer are amongst these great minds.

Scarily, it predicts that this pandemic was always going to come.

Edit: forgot to say and even more spookily, they predicted from whence it would come, Wuhan indeed being in "S.E. Asia", assuming that was ground zero and not the more colourful theories being bandied about.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 17, 2020, 07:36:32 PM
Craig Brown (the GWT) and his bit of stuff came into the restaurant we were in tonight. So much for social distancing for the elderly but honestly, unless they're spraying the food with Covid-19 (or the staff are infected) the chances of catching it at present in a mostly empty restaurant are very remote at present. Fucking shame for the catering trade. Shame for everyone really. The wife got her re-deployment papers today (effective immediately) so we know shit's about to get real when the managers and senior personnel in most departments are being drafted to the front line, or Covid Central as it's become known.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Elgindon on March 17, 2020, 08:09:53 PM
While the politicians fanny about,as much of this will depend on our own decisions and common sense.
Some better news below ; 

📌 China has closed down its last coronavirus hospital. Not enough new cases to support them.

📌 Doctors in India have been successful in treating Coronavirus. Combination of drugs used: Lopinavir, Retonovir, Oseltamivir along with Chlorphenamine. They are going to suggest same medicine, globally.

📌 Researchers of the Erasmus Medical Center claim to have found an antibody against coronavirus.

📌 A 103-year-old Chinese grandmother has made a full recovery from COVID-19 after being treated for 6 days in Wuhan, China.

📌 Apple reopens all 42 china stores.

📌 Cleveland Clinic developed a COVID-19 test that gives results in hours, not days.

📌 Good news from South Korea, where the number of new cases is declining.

📌 Italy is hit hard, experts say, only because they have the oldest population in Europe.

📌 Scientists in Israel likely to announce the development of a coronavirus vaccine.

📌 3 Maryland coronavirus patients fully recovered; able to return to everyday life.

📌 A network of Canadian scientists are making excellent progress in Covid-19 research.

📌 A San Diego biotech company is developing a Covid-19 vaccine in collaboration with Duke University and National University of Singapore.

📌 Tulsa County's first positive COVID-19 case has recovered. This individual has had two negative tests, which is the indicator of recovery.

📌 All 7 patients who were getting treated for at Safdarjung hospital in New Delhi have recovered.

📌 Plasma from newly recovered patients from Covid -19 can treat others infected by Covid-19.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 17, 2020, 11:18:50 PM
Leo Varadkar's speech was phenomenal not just for its content but its delivery.

Leo has proved he has leadership qualities, sadly lacking in both Boris and Nicola.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 18, 2020, 09:10:24 AM
The article published in Lancet plus the infected consultant's description that the UK's insane policy is one of surrender has nailed what many of us suspected. This ship is being run by fools.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30667-X/fulltext

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/17/there-is-a-policy-of-surrender-doctor-on-uks-covid-19-failures?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 18, 2020, 01:57:44 PM
The government's utter incompetence has just resulted in the pound's lowest value v. the dollar for 25 years. Thanks Boris.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 18, 2020, 04:41:38 PM
Up to 55 today, more than 2.5 times more in 2 days... but only a 57% increase from yesterday so no doubt Dominic Cummings can spin that as a positive.

72 yesterday, 104 today.

But today's not finished yet.

ARI is eerily quiet, with no elective surgery scheduled and no virus rush yet.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on March 18, 2020, 05:43:48 PM
You couldn't make better satire up than these afternoon press conferences from the three wise folk of Government.

Not exactly inspiring confidence amongst us proles.

Bojo is a fucking clown.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 18, 2020, 05:58:50 PM
You couldn't make better satire up than these afternoon press conferences from the three wise folk of Government.

Not exactly inspiring confidence amongst us proles.

Bojo is a fucking clown.

100%.

Schools closed for everyone other than certain kids (of delivery drivers, NHS staff etc., with special needs) and exams cancelled (but "we will ensure they get the qualifications they deserve".) No definitions nor detail. They are making this up on the hoof and getting it spectacularly wrong. We all said 48 hours ago that the schools would have to close and that recommendations rather than directions that pubs etc. would need to close was absurd management.

PMQ's today was embarrassing. For us, that we live in this circus and this is our elected government.

Rosena Allin-Khan asked a tremendous question - which will undoubtedly be shown on Channel 4 and definitely ignored by the BBC - and once again, our PM blustered, waffled and bullshitted (as he did to EVERY question). I couldn't agree more. You can't make up leadership this bad. The constant reiterations of this being "unprecedented" isn't new to us. That they keep on repeating that they are "acting on the science" has been done to death and we don't believe their excuses (for their u-turns) when they go on about the crucial "timing" of their interventions. It's STILL an utter shitshow.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 18, 2020, 10:36:31 PM
72 yesterday, 104 today.

But today's not finished yet.

At this rate, we will exceed 1,000 deaths before next weekend. One of the reasons that I'm confident about the maths is that we have tested so few people, we must have so many more spreaders than we know of. The amount of infected must be staggeringly underreported in the U.K. and without locking down early enough, there's been too much damage already done.

The pictures of tanks being relocated to London and the army at Clapham Junction today is being interpreted as the imminent London lockdown resulting in inevitable looting. The genie is out of the bottle and shit's about to get real.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on March 18, 2020, 11:04:32 PM
The London HQ of the British Army is at Clapham Junction



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 19, 2020, 01:06:24 AM
The London HQ of the British Army is at Clapham Junction

And for all we know, it could have been a photoshopped pic or an old pic and the tanks might not have been today. When the people don't trust the leaders and fear and alarm is raging, all sorts of shit is going to be put out there and it catches fire when stupid people start regurgitating. The only thing I'm sure of is that shit's going to get real.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: donsdaft on March 19, 2020, 03:54:50 PM
They won't report it when the looting starts though.

Although in this day and age I suppose there are other methods of getting the news out there.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on March 19, 2020, 06:04:43 PM
These conferences are pure comedy gold.

Armando Inniucci must be scripting these.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 19, 2020, 07:44:10 PM
I missed the BJ performance today but I caught a bit of Trump.

His reiteration of the "Chinese" virus was obstinance following the excellent challenge he faced yesterday from that brave young lassie but his attempts to pronounce the scientists and vaccines today was utterly tragic. Everybody's doing a great job and they're going to fix this real soon apparently. In the old days, leaders were not intellectually subnormal. In the very old days, the leaders were the best fighters and minds. This cunt, like Boris, have no expertise in anything other than bullshit and bluster. And given the dumbed down populaces they front, they get off with it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on March 19, 2020, 08:27:40 PM
Watching Boris is like watching a character in an old Ealing film.

As a leader of one of the supposedly biggest nations of the World, he isn't really coming across well and to the actual policy on dealing with the virus is far from instilling confidence in the nation, you finish watching less clued up than before .

We stay indoors, but we close down nothing which seems to be the most successful way of containing the virus. He is telling business to back their staff and not make job losses, but doesn't advise how they keep paying people when their revenues have dropped through the floor and what about people in general who have possibly lost  jobs and have bills to pay such as rent no real crumbs of comfort given to them.

We then have the clusterfuck which is the NHS, the fact they still cannot get the required equipment needed to protect front end staff should make them hang their heads in shame.

Everyday just seems to add another level of contradiction to their plans.

Just not good enough and I hope folk who voted for the clown including many in this part of the world are realising how big a cunt the man and his government poodles actually are and to think most of these folk will get titles and peerages for presiding over this mess.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 19, 2020, 08:35:22 PM
Just not good enough and I hope folk who voted for the clown including many in this part of the world are realising how big a cunt the man and his government poodles actually are and to think most of these folk will get titles and peerages for presiding over this mess.

I was speaking to a guy at work today who thinks Boris is doing a great job (his actual words). The polls suggest the British public are broadly happy with, and trusting in, his performance.

I don't get it. I'll just have to start reading the Telegraph I suppose and wait to die.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on March 19, 2020, 09:41:38 PM
I was speaking to a guy at work today who thinks Boris is doing a great job (his actual words). The polls suggest the British public are broadly happy with, and trusting in, his performance.

I don't get it. I'll just have to start reading the Telegraph I suppose and wait to die.

Aye, I ken a few Bojo supporters as well who if you ask them what he has done that is so good the stock answer is that he is not Corbyn.

I'll never get my head around anyone voting for that clown or the party he leads.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on March 19, 2020, 10:14:24 PM
The latest mortality trajectories tracker from the financial times worries me massively as most just continue to ignore the guidelines, clear as day that we need a full lockdown with curfews in place but that cunt and his eugenics supporting pals are hell bent on keeping places open.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 20, 2020, 12:11:10 AM
I have decided to ignore the government's advice. I took a train to visit a pub and took a train back again to go to another pub. Rail travel is free right now by the way as the conductor's are self-isolating. I've got hand gel to use now and as the pubs I'm going to are people I know, we are not coughing over each other and none of us have symptoms.

If this was London or a big city I might listen to the government. But since it's not, I'm with the majority of my mates and we are telling the PM to fuck off. If he hasn't got the balls or the knowledge to tell us that it's mandatory, it can't be that serious. But most of all we love a bevvy more than we love an English Tory government so fuck you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 20, 2020, 12:15:53 PM
In the cold light of sobriety, I'll not do that again. That hour and three quarters was me saying goodbye to pubs before they get shut down anyway. Be kind to others and help the weak and vulnerable. I despise bad people, especially those with power. Love and peace.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on March 20, 2020, 06:15:51 PM
Amazing announcement to close so many business and offer to pay 80% of wages. Must truly shaft BoJo’s Brexit plans.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on March 20, 2020, 07:32:41 PM
Big sums of money going to be spent and you know it will be open for abuse. Going to leave the finances in a bad state, but they have to ensure people don't lose out because if it all.

Maybe an extra tax on the sky high profits of the supermarkets and the likes of Amazon is required to ensure they don't profit too much from the situation, never going to happen though.

Bojo just blusters his way through these breifings like a bull(shitter) in a china shop. Still don't think they are taking this seriously and it is all spin over substance.

Saw the story about the live in staff at the hotel in Aviemore losing their jobs and home today. Thought that was very harsh and a situation which could be avoided.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 20, 2020, 07:46:29 PM
The Coylumbridge Hotel committed suicide and the Britannia Group as a whole will die as a result.

Fuck them. If they'd waited 24 hours, they would not be dead.

Never liked the vibe in Aviemore. I'm there for a few days every summer but never stayed at that place, nor will any ither cunt after the news today.

Edit: Aberdeen Royal Infirmity is empty. With all elective surgery having been cancelled, the expected rush of respiratory cases has yet to materialise. What this means is that patients are going to be shipped here. If they're weegies, the biggest challenge will be the behaviour of their relatives. Glasgow is the hot spot for Covid-19 in Scotland. Just wait to get the feedback from the NHS front line!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Madbadteacher on March 21, 2020, 03:39:07 AM
Governor of Illinois announced a “stay at home” order this afternoon to come into effect at 5pm tomorrow (Saturday).
Only “essential” workers to be working, don’t leave house unless absolutely necessary for food, pharmacy etc.

Getting serious here, guess I won’t be at work for a while.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LA-Don on March 21, 2020, 06:34:08 AM
Governor of Illinois announced a “stay at home” order this afternoon to come into effect at 5pm tomorrow (Saturday).
Only “essential” workers to be working, don’t leave house unless absolutely necessary for food, pharmacy etc.

Getting serious here, guess I won’t be at work for a while.

Got ours in LA yesterday too, have been working from home for a week now. Bored shitless.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: scotfree on March 21, 2020, 07:14:07 AM
I had to run out and get some milk and bread last night. All the pubs were packed full and in the shopping centres, people were just going around like fuck all was happening. It was really frustrating to see. They closed Bondi beach in Sydney today as the place was packed out yesterday. If people here don't pull their heads out their arses Australia is fucked.


 (https://sl.sbs.com.au/public/image/file/66e78126-488d-43f1-8e19-d3c7fd61c1d3/crop/16x9)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 21, 2020, 07:29:16 AM
Got ours in LA yesterday too, have been working from home for a week now. Bored shitless.

Now now. Being "bored shitless" is an attitude. It's the social interaction you're missing but with phone calls and social media, this can be mitigated. This can be a highly constructive time for reflection and personal development. It just needs a mission.

I went to the library yesterday before it shut and took out 11 books. I was allowed 20 so in hindsight I fucked up there but unlike my wife who reads on her iPad, I prefer paper. I've got a dozen or so on my bookshelves that I could read and scores I could re-read but I guess I'll do the Kindle thing for the first time and hey, I might even like it.

Reading more isn't the only focus. There are tons of things I can get round to doing online, some of which being business-related so a constructive use of time preparing for the virus-free future and I'm sure most of you have stuff around the house that needs improving. Reach out to your neighbours and make it a project to help a couple of them. The chances of us sub 60 or 70 year olds kicking the bucket are slim so it's going to be a big change but it doesn't have to be an endurance. I'm going to miss the pubs, badly but I've accepted that and we move on. Or move not a lot really. I'll be taking fresh air every day but taking the most razor-sharp flick knife with me. I would take a hammer too but being in a village with few people, I'm sure I won't need it as any strangers would stand out. Just got to get the mind active. Being bored is a state of mind, one easily avoidable. I've not been bored for forty years but I do remember periods of boredom as a teenager. It's something we grow out of with good thinking, purpose and discipline. Best of luck to all.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Elgindon on March 21, 2020, 07:43:52 AM
Surprising how casual some folks are being.Assistant at b and q yesterday coughing all over the joint without covering her mouth.
 It's quiet at the NHS up here because there are only 18 confirmed cases in Grampian (down from 24 strangely),though expect that to grow as we reach a peak.
Edit there's a webpage called worldometer Corona virus for latest stats around the world,and a map for affected regions in the uk in the Guardian website
 Currently self isolating in the Glen Orchy hills
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 21, 2020, 07:53:55 AM
Surprising how casual some folks are being.Assistant at b and q yesterday coughing all over the joint without covering her mouth.
 It's quiet at the NHS up here because there are only 18 confirmed cases(down from 24 strangely),though expect that to grow as we reach a peak.

It's hard to take something seriously when it's invisible and we don't know anyone who's been infected by it. Orkney had zero cases last I heard so I can imagine it's going to be harder for them (to not be casual). It's London and the biggest populations that are suffering the most.

We suspect that our second daughter may already have had it. She was at some medical conference in Lisbon before Xmas and when she visited us for a few days after, had this really bad cough that her mother and I were pretty concerned about. She was fine after a couple of weeks but given that there were international delegates including Chinese, she may well have picked up the virus that had no name then. Now if we only had access to tests - including the simple one that recognises the antibodies - data is essential in tracking a pandemic.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: donsdaft on March 21, 2020, 07:55:05 AM
We’re banned from doing eye tests.
Looks like 25 years hard work down the pan.

Specs still available lads
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 21, 2020, 08:20:45 AM
https://youtu.be/tQD4B_hmdvo
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 21, 2020, 08:39:59 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/20/boris-johnson-covid-19-prime-minister-brexit
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Ten Caat on March 21, 2020, 09:56:48 AM
I presume your comment further up the page about a poster on here becoming a nurse to "help himself and racked up an extraordinary number of sick days whilst exploiting the system" was aimed at me then?

It's fucking libellous and I suggest you edit it and apologise.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 21, 2020, 10:23:15 AM
I presume your comment further up the page about a poster on here becoming a nurse to "help himself and racked up an extraordinary number of sick days whilst exploiting the system" was aimed at me then?

It's fucking libellous and I suggest you edit it and apologise.

I deleted my reference to you, as you asked for. But I'm not convinced that you're not the recently retired Nurse manager with an appalling attendance record so I'm not apologising. Your nastiness, towards humanity on this thread, taking glee in the elderly dying, finding entertainment in people losing their jobs and previous overt racism towards Muslims in the Balkans leads me to conclude that you're a fucking horrible specimen.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 21, 2020, 12:52:51 PM
Two days in a row, we've got a massive aeroplane coming into Abz at just before 3 a.m.

Anyone know why?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 21, 2020, 01:09:24 PM
Freight/supplies possibly? I thought they'd lifted some of the restrictions on night time flying, but could be wrong.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 21, 2020, 08:11:24 PM
4,000 retired nurses and 500 retired doctors have already answered the call to get back to the front line within the first 48 hours.

Because they want to. They entered the caring profession with the sole aim to help others.

Meanwhile our resident racist pig sits on his arse hoping and praying that the mandatory letter doesn't come.

Don't worry TC, they'll not want you back. You're free to fester.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 21, 2020, 08:42:45 PM
I dinna get it, is it a phone call or a letter?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 21, 2020, 08:48:10 PM
I dinna get it, is it a phone call or a letter?

The government made a call to the nation, not individually of course but they said that they would need to consider asking the recently-retired to come back. 4,500 responded already.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 21, 2020, 09:02:00 PM
A much more fundamental issue (than the method - whether phone call or letter - of up-sizing the NHS front line) is getting the right people into the right places. Just like any profession, there are pieces of shit in every one of them.

At ARI, a consultant is off on the sick again this week and the staff know that he'll not be seen again for a while. His wife is also a consultant, they have a young family but with combined earnings of a quarter of a million p.a. (of our tax-payers money), it's a fucking disgrace that he's been allowed to get off with it for so long. He was a weegie, the first to go to uni from his scum background but his scum behaviour won't show up in the stats.

Liverpool and Glasgow are the biggest claimants per capita of invalidity benefit in the UK. In other words, they're on the sick considerably more than the third highest region for this. The majority are not on the sick obviously but these two regions have a considerably bigger minority percentage-wise than the North and East of Scotland for example. There are scum everywhere, including right here.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on March 21, 2020, 10:06:52 PM
The apparent practice of profiteering in times of stress has now expanded to go after the owners of takeaways etc.

Last week people were posting videos and pics of small shops or ebay sellers selling toilet role, hand sanitiser etc at vastly inflated prices and now it appears this is spreading to wholesalers and it may hit people like my mate who runs my local takeaway.
He is keeping a close eye his preferred cash & carry, meat suppliers etc but being a rational person his attitude is if they double the price on something he will just remove it from his menu, a bit like the supermarkets now cutting down on the number of product lines they sell.

In other news campervans are arriving in the Highlands at a fairly large rate (alot around where my elderly parents live) as people try to 'escape' handily forgetting (or just selfishly ignoring) that jumping ship from urban areas with the largest number of cases is a golden ticket for the virus spreading all over the country. Also unless you are Rambo isolating yourself in a campervan in an area with barely enough resources for the people who actually live there has to be up for a Darwin award.

The idea of a lockdown enforced by cops/  the military is starting to look very appealing just to see these pricks getting charged.

I try not to use the word 'hate' as along with 'love' it gets banded about so much that their true meanings have been lost but if I had to say I hate something it is the genetic coding in certain peoples brains that makes them want to rent or own a mobile caravan/ campervan for the purposes of a holiday.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 21, 2020, 11:06:29 PM
I just checked the NMC website. They have sent out emails yesterday to all nurses who have retired/left the nursing register within the last 3 years. I found mine in my spam folder. So I have now added my name to list willing to return.

Good man. I knew you'd do the right thing  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 21, 2020, 11:51:22 PM
I try not to use the word 'hate' as along with 'love' it gets banded about so much that their true meanings have been lost but if I had to say I hate something it is the genetic coding in certain peoples brains that makes them want to rent or own a mobile caravan/ campervan for the purposes of a holiday.

I used to love camping as a youngster. We never had a caravan, but stayed at a few caravan parks, and they were great places. I'd love a caravan for going away now and again in Scotland (or England). Although a tent would do the business. Never, ever get my wife to come though, she's of the same opinion as you.

You're right about the current state of play though, however it's close to the easter holidays when plenty of folk head up that way for a break (was intending to myself, but cancelled - too many English!). Could just be thoughtlessly going up a week or so early. It all stems from the vagueness of the approach taken by the government in my opinion. It's barely a fortnight since herd mentality was all the rage.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: scotfree on March 22, 2020, 12:36:33 AM
Keep it civil here, lads.
We are all in this together.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: scotfree on March 22, 2020, 03:03:05 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/lDeTArz.jpg)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on March 22, 2020, 08:46:27 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/lDeTArz.jpg)
Someone did that in braehead a week ago.
Hopefully the supermarkets are taking the hint.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 22, 2020, 12:09:45 PM
The report in the Sunday Times that Dominic Cummings said the strategy was: “herd immunity, protect the economy & if that means some pensioners die, too bad” may or may not be 100% accurate but the actions taken by the government suggests that it was. BJ himself was trying to explain Herd Immunity to Schofield and Holly not so long ago.

As the virologists and epidemiologists were arguing, that concept could only work when the nature of the virus was understood, which it still isn't. The fact that it was published today means that their sources are spot on, that they were there, heard it and recounted it. The lawyers would NEVER have allowed it to go to print otherwise. Downing Street have denied it obviously but they must NOW come out on the telly and must immediately raise an action v. The Times if it's been the worst fake news story in recent history. Otherwise, at least one citizen, Cummings is in severe danger of his life and with many thousands of citizens soon to be bereaved, it won't be long before it gets real ugly.

The timing of it is interesting following the documentary on Cummings this week.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 22, 2020, 01:37:27 PM
At this rate, we will exceed 1,000 deaths before next weekend.

At 233, we are the exact same number that Italy had 14 days ago. The ghoulish path of death rates between Italy and the UK are almost an exact mirror thus far. 28 days ago, they had their first, 14 days ago, we had ours.

There is no reason why our death rate will be less than theirs. Given that they have 2.5 x more ITU beds than us and much greater resources, there's an argument that ours will be worse. At least all their front line staff have PPE.

So the maths are as good as certain that we will exceed 1,000 deaths before next weekend, by Thursday if we follow the Italian parallel. The numbers and the pace of escalation between 1,000 and 2,000 and then 4,000 etc. are frightening.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tlg1903 on March 22, 2020, 03:20:44 PM
Government handling of this has been appalling rocket.  Only thinking about business, indeed I'm sure they would be delighted if a whole bunch of high cost pensioners were soon not on their books anymore.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on March 22, 2020, 06:43:27 PM
Government handling of this has been appalling rocket.  Only thinking about business, indeed I'm sure they would be delighted if a whole bunch of high cost pensioners were soon not on their books anymore.

Perhaps but given that many elderly (and dare I say it senile) people vote Tory I’m not sure killing them off early is good for the party.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on March 22, 2020, 06:56:48 PM
I was speaking to a guy at work today who thinks Boris is doing a great job (his actual words). The polls suggest the British public are broadly happy with, and trusting in, his performance.

I don't get it. I'll just have to start reading the Telegraph I suppose and wait to die.

My linkedin feed is full if people either posting or liking posts with pictures of Johnson and Sunak along the lines of 'these men are working tirelessly to save the country and we thank them for it'

I'm giving Sunak a bit of a break at the moment (not too much because his brain wiring is still set to Tory) but as for Johnson.....

Thankfully there are plenty of responses about how long it has taken them to get their act together, and how they still have done fuck all to help the self employed but what I havent see is a response along the lines of

ITS THEIR FUCKING JOB AND EVERYTHING 'POSITIVE' THEY ARE DOING IS BEING DONE ABOUT A WEEK AFTER IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE AND WITH EXTREME RELUCTANCE/ A GUN POINTED TO THEIR HEAD.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on March 22, 2020, 07:43:03 PM
My linkedin feed is full if people either posting or liking posts with pictures of Johnson and Sunak along the lines of 'these men are working tirelessly to save the country and we thank them for it'

I'm giving Sunak a bit of a break at the moment (not too much because his brain wiring is still set to Tory) but as for Johnson.....

Thankfully there are plenty of responses about how long it has taken them to get their act together, and how they still have done fuck all to help the self employed but what I havent see is a response along the lines of

ITS THEIR FUCKING JOB AND EVERYTHING 'POSITIVE' THEY ARE DOING IS BEING DONE ABOUT A WEEK AFTER IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE AND WITH EXTREME RELUCTANCE/ A GUN POINTED TO THEIR HEAD.

The goodwill towards Johnson is frightening, as initially they were not going down the path we are currently on and chose the survival of the fittest option, which I found very scary. Then after finally following what all other countries were doing, including countries who have been through it and appear to be over the worst, we follow suit and he is some sort of hero for implementing what he should have done earlier.

The 80% wages was a good thing, but I bet you many in the party fought against, but I still believe the economic impact of the virus is still going to do much more damage than the virus itself, if they didn't come up with the supported wages plan I dread to think what would have happened.  Once over the worst of it they will implement tougher austerity measures to recoup what they have lost with the virus.

Sadly, he will be the PM who saw us through the virus and will be hailed a hero, which will no doubt mean winning another term in government, despite his inaction at the start possibly costing a few more people their lives.

People thinking BJ is a good PM shows how fucked up this island really is.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 23, 2020, 12:14:52 PM
We're into the blame phase now. Expect to see lots more government officials highlighting the general public flouting the rules as if it were unexpected. They'll go to town on it for the next couple of days and that'll be the lasting image when hospitals hit their limits and become overwhelmed. Herd mentality never happened, we tested the entire population, but those who went to the pub for two additional days ruined it for everyone.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 23, 2020, 12:16:16 PM
If ever there was proof that the mainstream news media are complicit in supporting this inept government and the likes of Laura K and Peston and Sky are actually contributing to the farcical situation that is needlessly going to cost tens of thousands and possibly hundreds of thousands of lives, it's the fact that Piers Morgan of all people was today the first "journalist" to attempt to hold the government to account.

His "interview" with Hancock was cringeworthy often, and could've been handled so much better but at least someone finally highlighted the shite that pours out of their mouths. His constant interruptions were born from his panicky style and his massive ego, and he proved that he's not a very good interviewer at all but at least he tried - and to a limited degree succeeded - in showing the folly and the absolute incompetence of our whole government. He missed the opportunity to totally nail and crucify them however, a case of the man in the right not knowing how to use the power of being right to expose the ignorance and stupidity of the man (and the government that he represents) who is in the wrong.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 23, 2020, 01:04:43 PM
https://youtu.be/CUdLf921Nq4
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 23, 2020, 02:35:35 PM
When the government order a full lock down tonight (or possibly tomorrow at the latest), at least two weeks later than they should have done, this is further proof that there is no concrete strategy, let alone an alternative one they have been acting on. Just like we all predicted they would do a U-turn on the schools, this gives a firm impression that they're acting more on public opinion more than "the science" that they claim they're doing. This is a government that reacts rather than leads and even then their reactions are way too late.

There can be no good science to allow the population to keep on spreading the virus. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to anticipate what would happen, which is now exactly what is happening. This government is weak and the PM has proved to be the complete buffoon we all knew he was. Maybe he was acting for the benefit of his daddy, that horrible fuck having the arrogance to tell Schofield and Holly last week that he will exercise his right to go to the pub. Who elected Boris's father? Why did he think that the UK public would be interested in ANYTHING he has to say? As revealed by his daughter yesterday, he's applied for French citizenship. What does this say about his faith in his son? That Boris's sister was "yay, maybe I can get French citizenship too" is similarly stupid.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on March 23, 2020, 07:30:07 PM
Matt Hancock is everything wrong with the government of this country and has been for far too long. People who are just poodles after a career in the top positions of government, but offer nothing in the role bar a willing ness to nod their heads when required and to agree 100% with policy and come times like these are found out big time.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 23, 2020, 07:50:34 PM
Matt Hancock is everything wrong with the government of this country and has been for far too long. People who are just poodles after a career in the top positions of government, but offer nothing in the role bar a willing ness to nod their heads when required and to agree 100% with policy and come times like these are found out big time.

Gary Gibbon nailed him on Channel 4 News. It was beautiful and so overdue.

And it was so tragic at the same time. How a useless cunt like that got the job.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on March 23, 2020, 08:13:07 PM
Gary Gibbon nailed him on Channel 4 News. It was beautiful and so overdue.

And it was so tragic at the same time. How a useless cunt like that got the job.

It was the C4 interview I saw him on and boy was he bad. Clueless didn't quite cover it and he cannot even cover up his shortcomings with personality, as he hasn't got one.

I expect him to either leave the cabinet in the next few weeks, be surprised if he doe survive.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 23, 2020, 10:15:06 PM
Laura Kuntsberg and the BBC haven't once questioned the timing of this lockdown. They are fawning sycophants for the government. It's unbelievable how some people are thinking that we are in good hands under Boris.

Channel 4 showed a doctor and a paramedic who had to have their identities covered up, because they were afraid that speaking the truth would cost them their jobs. They both spoke of the unforgivable situation of having to work without PPE.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 23, 2020, 10:40:11 PM
https://youtu.be/CUdLf921Nq4

The full interview today has been removed by YouTube already. This is the sinister deep state that we live in.

This government propaganda was released today : -

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-launches-whole-genome-sequence-alliance-to-map-spread-of-coronavirus

Within 15 minutes of an article appearing (by a renowned credible source) to analyse the implications of it and to criticise the future implications, which concluded with the passing of control and huge resources (cash) to big pharma, it suddenly disappeared from FaceBook.

Not only is an interview that was actually aired (showing the weakness of a key minister) not allowed to be seen now, direct criticism is being vetted and made to disappear.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: manc_don on March 24, 2020, 03:01:37 AM
Laura Kuntsberg and the BBC haven't once questioned the timing of this lockdown. They are fawning sycophants for the government. It's unbelievable how some people are thinking that we are in good hands under Boris.

She's an absolute cunt of a "journalist". Nothing but a pawn in the tory machine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 24, 2020, 07:23:43 AM
ARI went from zero to five patients on ventilators yesterday.

Shit's got real and getting closer to home.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: scotfree on March 24, 2020, 08:10:32 AM
Where I live has a population of 80,000 and only 8 ventilators.
Fun days...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 24, 2020, 04:57:39 PM
Hancock's Q & A just now is incredible. Kuntsberg got given the first question, unsurprisingly but they didn't answer it. The second question asked what happens if the parent of a 2 year old child gets ill. Again, a totally inept attempt to answer it which didn't, ending up being classified as an exceptional circumstance. The third question asked about boyfriend's and girlfriend's. Hancock's response was once again a reiteration of the same old shit that we already know and the deputy medical officer totally ignored the question of whether they're allowed to be affectionate with one another. Question four was very specific about construction work and Hancock's doing it AGAIN, running off at tangents and speaking total shite. Ok, he's now saying 2 metres apart but that's not possible in that industry, as we heard from industry representatives today. I give up. This is a shambles beyond any imagination.

Edit: the fifth and final question concerns testing. Hancock just said that where the antibody tests show that a person has had it, it means that they are now immune "apart from in exceptional circumstances" and can get back to work. That's a lie. We don't know this yet. My virologist daughter will be having a fit if she's seeing this. We don't know yet whether Covid-19 once contracted provides immunity. This isn't fucking measles.

Sickeningly, Hancock thinks they're doing great in this. He's going "great" and effusing positives (and relief) after each question, incapable of understanding that anyone watching this with half a brain is appalled at what we are witnessing. He's signing off now totally proud of himself that the first e-briefing worked so well.

Edit: spoke to my daughter who didn't see it. She corrected me that it wasn't a "lie" as such in that somebody with antibodies has had the virus and is immune from it AT PRESENT, at the time of the test. The total unknown is how long the immunity lasts with Covid-19.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: manc_don on March 25, 2020, 06:03:24 AM
So NZ are going into full lock down as of tonight. I have to say, i've been thoroughly impressed with how the government has acted throughout the process and keeping the public informed, once shit got real. They've introduced a four level system, of which we will be reaching level 4 of tonight. "unprecedented" which appears to be the word du jour, as nothing like this has ever been introduced in NZ before.  The PM has been very honest and reassuring, but not mincing about the facts. We all know that it's going to get worse, there could be deaths (please be some of the nats if it's necessary). Emphasising staying at home and self isolating.

They also have countless adds on TV / and used their mobile alert system to keep folk aware. You can't really miss it unless you try.

We were at level 2 on the weekend, which encouraged working from home, where possible and then social distancing. That changed as of Monday when we got our first community transitioned cases.

Supermarkets and pharmacies are open.  Pubs, bars , take aways, restaurants etc all closed. Parks all closed, no domestic travel unless necessary. Walks / exercise are all good, but keep your two metres. We've got four weeks of this, it's gonna be long and fuck knows what happens after this.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 25, 2020, 02:46:00 PM
So the tests go into the shops next week then and that could be it for a lot of folks? Back to normal? Will we see a rush of folk trying to get the virus to get it over and done with? I survived the Corona Virus t-shirts ready for shipping?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 25, 2020, 02:57:25 PM
I have to say, i've been thoroughly impressed with how the government has acted throughout the process

This is great to hear. It gives me hope for humanity.

It's also something that I'm sure that nobody in the UK has said nor can say. In hindsight, the "errors" (mostly of omission) will become clear to the majority but the underlying reasons as to why our government reacted as badly as it did needs to be exposed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 25, 2020, 03:37:58 PM
So the tests go into the shops next week then and that could be it for a lot of folks? Back to normal? Will we see a rush of folk trying to get the virus to get it over and done with? I survived the Corona Virus t-shirts ready for shipping?

Testing is testing. The infection is the infection. There is no point in trying to get it (particularly as a vaccine should become available), that would just be dumb but I appreciate you weren't advocating this and yes, some people are so thick they might feel like that.

It's what we do with test results that matters. Some countries have been testing on a wide scale. Our testing of the population percentage thus far must rank amongst the worst in Europe. Data tracking is key and indeed the technology has existed for a while. Unknown to me until recently, my wife and daughter no. 2 were amongst the 29,000+ participants for the Contagion: A BBC 4 Pandemic programme. China quickly developed an App to monitor social contacts and successfully "flattened the curve", so much so that they are imminently (if not already) releasing the lockdown measures which provides another great learning opportunity regarding reinfection rates etc.

Unless you're Idris Elba who paid £350 odd for a test or you're Prince Charles - who probably paid fuck all and for some bizarre reason seems to be the lead story of almost every news item just now - we don't know and can't know if we have it or not. The only UK citizens who do know have been tested on admission to hospital, to be treated by our doctors and nurses (including my wife) who still do not know whether or not they themselves are spreaders. That's what makes the government rhetoric of "ramping up" our testing so sick. They're ONLY testing the sick and there's more of them getting admitted, exponentially so. The results from testing to diagnosis are currently no less than 24 hours by the way. We have lost so much time and so many opportunities to learn, not to mention the utter idiocy of failing to act on WHO advice and other countries telling us their experiences until it's too late. The shit hitting the fan is coming in the next month and it's already started in the NHS, as Channel 4 News will highlight once again tonight unlike the BBC.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 25, 2020, 03:49:35 PM
We are hoping that our daughter in Glasgow can be home tonight, which will swell our household to 50% of our kids. Our eldest daughter is alone in her flat in Clapham - because her flatmate is stuck abroad and her fiancé flew back to HK on Sunday (where he was immediately quarantined in his flat and provided with an electronic tag for 14 days to ensure he stays there) - and given that London is the hotspot for this disease right now, she's probably at the highest risk amongst our kids.

Here's an example that NHS and human incompetence isn't exclusive to the hardest hit regions. As they clear ARI of non-essential cases, a paramedic was instructed to transport a patient to a community hospital in the NE yesterday. When he got him there, he was met by staff in full PPE which was surprise to him as the staff in ARI didn't have it and yet, they were the meant to be first port of call for Covid-19. It transpired that he had been transporting a patient who was currently Covid-positive, which he didn't know and yet the receiving staff did. It appears that simple communication, let alone necessary communication, is still something beyond most people.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 25, 2020, 05:10:24 PM
Aye, Rocket, I was referring to the new test that's being released for sale in Boots and Amazon next week (apparently). It is a quick test (apparently), with fast production in the millions (apparently) possible in short time scales. Thus, you pass, and you're free to do what you want. I'm guessing that there is nothing going to be in place to prove that you have passed and thus people just simply lie about having passed and go back to work or to the shops or whatever.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 25, 2020, 05:38:15 PM
They just debunked the Amazon/Boots next week thing on the daily briefing as they now need to test the tests.

It's the sloganeering that kills me. Strong and stable, take back control, get Brexit done were their previous but we will beat it, together got put out an extraordinary number of times just now and whatever it takes + Stay Home, Protect the NHS, Save Lives is the continuous mantra. I don't mind the mantra as it can't do any harm to repeat the basics but there are much more effective ways to get results than parrot repetition of the exact same words. The problem with sloganeering - whether for political purposes or for policy - is that whilst some of the morons might swallow it, the thinking classes recognise the sloganeering and it's demeaning, further widening trust between politicians and people.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 25, 2020, 06:05:36 PM
In Scotland, the number of patients on ventilators more than doubled today v. yesterday.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on March 25, 2020, 06:07:51 PM
That "get Brexit done" was just a dog whistle for the thick and uneducated which won them the election at a canter due to how dumb the little Englanders are.

Anyways away from that shit show this is rather interesting, I, like many others will have known people that were extremely ill around Christmas time so there maybe is something to it  https://www.ft.com/content/5ff6469a-6dd8-11ea-89df-41bea055720b?desktop=true&segmentId=d8d3e364-5197-20eb-17cf-2437841d178a
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 25, 2020, 06:18:38 PM
Anyways away from that shit show this is rather interesting, I, like many others will have known people that were extremely ill around Christmas time so there maybe is something to it

Agree re the Get Brexit Done slogan. I knew it was a clever strategy at the time, although the weakness of Corbyn and particularly the unfair and unethical character assassination job done on him was probably the bigger factor.

On this though, that article is invisible because it's subscription. As I already said on here though, we are convinced our virologist daughter was infected with Covid-19 in December, before the virus was known about.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 25, 2020, 07:29:16 PM
I was absolutely floored in January with the flu. Like nothing I've ever experienced. 5 days of being wiped out, and another 5 to recover. Was still struggling sporadically for a couple of weeks after. As was my daughter. Wife, not so much but a few days off work. In-laws too. If it turns out we were Corona'd, then I'd be pretty happy. Of course, it doesn't make sense that it would be unless the number of infections are exceptionally high (which the article suggests), as like all good heroes, we were all back at work infecting folk well within any 14 day period. That being said, I probably took at least 3 days off longer than I normally would as I was pretty concerned that I might pass what I think/thought was the flu to anyone else as it was whooring bad. It seems negligent if it was Corona Virus like, that's a lot of folk infected and - presumably - a lot of folk with an incorrect classification on their death certificates?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 25, 2020, 07:36:02 PM
Not necessarily Rico. We know it's contagious but we don't know exactly how the infection is spread. None of us caught it, including her elder sister with whom she shared a bed for five days. We reckon that transmission would only happen if the infected coughs directly on another or onto a surface that someone else then touches but it's still way too early to know.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 25, 2020, 08:07:14 PM
The UK death rate today hasn't been announced yet despite it always having been stated before 6.30 or 7 in the last couple of weeks. There will be a reason for this and whatever it is, I'm not feeling positive about it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 25, 2020, 08:22:50 PM
Not necessarily Rico. We know it's contagious but we don't know exactly how the infection is spread. None of us caught it, including her elder sister with whom she shared a bed for five days. We reckon that transmission would only happen if the infected coughs directly on another or onto a surface that someone else then touches but it's still way too early to know.

We don't know exactly how it's spread, but we do know that it spreads like a motherfucker. It would seem unlikely that a family in the UK (mine/yours/other folks') would be less likely to spread it than anywhere else in the world or the UK of today. I'm guessing there's only a couple of degrees of separation between us, being local loons, so you would expect a fair number of folk to be infected in this region alone. To the extent that it would have registered you'd have thought? Or to the extent that at least one person would have died from it and some form of testing done on them? Or do we not test if it's an al' or ill person?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on March 25, 2020, 09:01:07 PM
The UK death rate today hasn't been announced yet despite it always having been stated before 6.30 or 7 in the last couple of weeks. There will be a reason for this and whatever it is, I'm not feeling positive about it.

Announced now. Half the number from yesterday!! Suspect that may be a blip but could be considered a “good day”.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 25, 2020, 09:14:12 PM
Announced now. Half the number from yesterday!! Suspect that may be a blip but could be considered a “good day”.

I saw they announced 28 in England, which would indeed be a good day. Just strange that the UK number hasn't been announced plus the timing of the announcement is strange, being late and out of character.

Edit: 41 UK today apparently so a very good day
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on March 25, 2020, 09:17:23 PM
I’m sure it’s 41 down from 87.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: CtS on March 25, 2020, 09:17:50 PM
Government possibly worried a ‘good day’ will hinder the lockdown process which the masses are only recently buying in to?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 25, 2020, 09:19:13 PM
Government possibly worried a ‘good day’ will hinder the lockdown process which the masses are only recently buying in to?

Yeah it's always a good day when almost three and a half dozen kick the bucket.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 25, 2020, 10:54:50 PM
Interestingly one of the NHS group chats that my wife is part of are talking about the timing and the content of the UK death announcement today.

Personally I think today is proof of the genius of Sir Patrick and a vindication of the outstanding management conducted by Matt and Blow Job. Trump was right. It's like a miracle how this is just going to disappear.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 25, 2020, 10:58:58 PM
Nadhim Tory cunt getting nailed on Newsnight just now.

His constant use of "ramping up" has just been exposed by Emily.

Awesome stuff Emily. This cunt is fuck all v. Randy Andy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 26, 2020, 01:38:01 PM
A further tragic indictment of the government's absolute incompetence thus far was their plea for our manufacturing industry to make respirators. A sane government would fund the extra capacity requirements of existing respirator manufacturers and would know that car makers and others, who have never produced highly specialised medical equipment are incapable of getting up to speed in the required time. One of the biggest acts of gross stupidity in political history.

Unfortunately I gave the government too much credit. It wasn't stupidity but way more sinister than that.

The announcement that Dyson has been awarded a 10,000 ventilator contract wouldn't be anything to do with the fact that he was a massive Brexit supporter would it?

Andrew Raynor of MEC Medical answered the call from the government and was ignored, as revealed on Newsnight last night. I don't get why Hancock wouldn't have gone to existing specialists in the field FIRST.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Elgindon on March 26, 2020, 02:53:19 PM
 Thoughts on this?  https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/24/12-experts-questioning-the-coronavirus-panic/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=4725dcc4b8208dd39c3832912322c5754d8905f0-1585233996-0-AXgnp9BA0sR2N1_lYNVo4MXLhR2XgOXfCcvhK25DVPJYtju8EUekWMGsfpaOxRgDaddO3rff9M2QzGO3fVgOB0I0_UudL8qZ0vhiVsWD3KddBCcpBJM02BiEYbYPMi-DRsx-nE5ckqQf8DRrJqTMNUwzWawbun873pHYqs0Y8Fp5eWPf7XC4OhGrgD3MDVos7YvGzLBc4D3Nj4SD4hRUg6ODXCLmUKnkTdxtaUlyGrK9TpqQOrapW6iaS85dgNw6RVI8EODzW7yICLtqz2SvtP6EdxjNoZxiP2CrycIzljVAKEk6jVNNdROMPnb0JTEao7308bSLckLpbQkKhIIEpx00-STjkej2ZkfiQmhZhKoe

 …..and a good listen on the Joe Rogan show if you've time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw&fbclid=IwAR0xSolMDTiD9DUfHByIMjlHie9ZnA_qrRj_r02KijyZpuGUrXDS_TGVmXM
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on March 26, 2020, 05:16:18 PM
Unfortunately I gave the government too much credit. It wasn't stupidity but way more sinister than that.

The announcement that Dyson has been awarded a 10,000 ventilator contract wouldn't be anything to do with the fact that he was a massive Brexit supporter would it?

Andrew Raynor of MEC Medical answered the call from the government and was ignored, as revealed on Newsnight last night. I don't get why Hancock wouldn't have gone to existing specialists in the field FIRST.
The guy from G tech hoovers had designed one and offered to them the government as well, no surprise that's all ignored and it's jobs for the boys again.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 26, 2020, 07:01:47 PM
It was indeed a blip yesterday. 113 deaths in the last day.

As we discovered earlier today, England decided to change the time in the day when they count them. Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland have been reporting as normal.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 27, 2020, 07:28:44 AM
Thoughts on this?  https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/24/12-experts-questioning-the-coronavirus-panic/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=4725dcc4b8208dd39c3832912322c5754d8905f0-1585233996-0-AXgnp9BA0sR2N1_lYNVo4MXLhR2XgOXfCcvhK25DVPJYtju8EUekWMGsfpaOxRgDaddO3rff9M2QzGO3fVgOB0I0_UudL8qZ0vhiVsWD3KddBCcpBJM02BiEYbYPMi-DRsx-nE5ckqQf8DRrJqTMNUwzWawbun873pHYqs0Y8Fp5eWPf7XC4OhGrgD3MDVos7YvGzLBc4D3Nj4SD4hRUg6ODXCLmUKnkTdxtaUlyGrK9TpqQOrapW6iaS85dgNw6RVI8EODzW7yICLtqz2SvtP6EdxjNoZxiP2CrycIzljVAKEk6jVNNdROMPnb0JTEao7308bSLckLpbQkKhIIEpx00-STjkej2ZkfiQmhZhKoe

 …..and a good listen on the Joe Rogan show if you've time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw&fbclid=IwAR0xSolMDTiD9DUfHByIMjlHie9ZnA_qrRj_r02KijyZpuGUrXDS_TGVmXM

Finally got round to listening to it all.

So refreshing to listen to a real expert.

Great find. Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on March 27, 2020, 11:22:17 AM
BoJo has it!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 27, 2020, 11:52:06 AM
BoJo has it!

What's the protocol if he dies? Have we had a dead serving prime minister before? I assume they'd just continue to shuffle his corpse out for the daily updates.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on March 27, 2020, 12:31:52 PM
What's the protocol if he dies? Have we had a dead serving prime minister before? I assume they'd just continue to shuffle his corpse out for the daily updates.

Cummings pulls the strings anyway, so we wouldn't notice that much of a difference.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tlg1903 on March 27, 2020, 01:18:28 PM
I'm imagining Cummings going all weekend at bernies with bojo now...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: wee toon red on March 27, 2020, 01:41:37 PM
What's the protocol if he dies? Have we had a dead serving prime minister before? I assume they'd just continue to shuffle his corpse out for the daily updates.

Surely Dominic Raab takes over until such time as the Tories elect a new leader?

Edited: While Raab isn't actually deputy PM, as Foreign Secretary he's also First Secretary of State and therefore next in line.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 27, 2020, 02:08:38 PM
Surely Dominic Raab (deputy PM) takes over until such time as the Tories elect a new leader?

Jesus. I never thought I'd ever wish Boris a speedy and full recovery
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on March 27, 2020, 03:13:46 PM
Decent site for monitoring numbers. The UK figures are shooting up:

https://ncov2019.live/data
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on March 27, 2020, 07:09:44 PM
I do wonder if Bojo having it is a bit of spin for when more people realise he fucked up with all his dithering.

Far fetched maybe but I trust that lot as much as I would have letting Jimmy Saville look after my kids.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 28, 2020, 11:27:26 AM
I don't blame politicians for being "style-aware". It was Blair's administration who introduced the term "spin" but when style becomes more important than substance, then they're fucked. Or they would be if the electorate wasn't so dumb.

The fact that they say thank you for each and every question received in the daily briefings isn't a normal expression of gratitude. It's what they've been told to do to try to make them look more human. It doesn't even make sense, thanking someone (already pre-selected) for doing their job, particularly if the question is highly critical and exposes one of their many weaknesses.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 28, 2020, 12:36:54 PM
The approval ratings for Trump would be astonishing but for the fact that most of his approvers aren't voting for him, they're voting for themselves. In this snowflake era where people aren't able to admit their mistakes, the truth becomes secondary to their perception of self.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 28, 2020, 01:31:55 PM
Just as we were able to identify from the data that England had decided to change their reporting a couple of days ago, there may be a change in this respect going on in the US right now. Astonishingly low percentage increases in the latest numbers today.

Edit: ok they've upped the US numbers a bit in the last couple of hours.

At the UK briefing today, they said we had over 1,000 dead as of 5 pm last night.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 28, 2020, 03:23:43 PM
At this rate, we will exceed 1,000 deaths before next weekend.

Now that this has been confirmed, I don't see next week being other than similarly exponential and horrific. The government acted too late and as we saw in the West Midlands yesterday, some people STILL don't understand the seriousness of the situation. Herd Immunity didn't work.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on March 28, 2020, 03:41:45 PM
Now that this has been confirmed, I don't see next week being other than similarly exponential and horrific. The government acted too late and as we saw in the West Midlands yesterday, some people STILL don't understand the seriousness of the situation. Herd Immunity didn't work.

Id be happy if people understood the difference between 2 feet and 2 metres.  :hammer:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 28, 2020, 04:51:36 PM
Id be happy if people understood the difference between 2 feet and 2 metres.  :hammer:

It's weird, because they originally said 6ft, but then changed to metres. Not a huge difference of course, but just another thing to confuse the masses. Two metres is difficult in most shops, and impossible on most pavements. I was shopping just now and other than at the tills, the two metre rule wasn't really applied. Which is fine. On a couple of occasions, myself and another customer weren't far away but had our back to one another, thus no risk. Either of us could have made a deal of it, but neither did. It was good to see some basic common sense.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 28, 2020, 06:51:39 PM
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/10/doctor-johnson-thousands-deaths-nhs-patient?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 28, 2020, 09:50:32 PM
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/10/doctor-johnson-thousands-deaths-nhs-patient?__twitter_impression=true

It's a shame there weren't some proper examples and substance in there. It's not exactly wikileaks level whistleblowing if you see what I mean. Good though, I suspect most doctors would just quit their post. Must have been difficult to put their name to it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 29, 2020, 12:56:18 AM
Data. It's always revealing.

Today and of the major disaster areas, the UK 34.25% and the US (now that their numbers are in) 30.25% suffered the worst percentage increases day-to-day.

There's now a G7 of countries who have tripped 1,000.

Over the next week, I can't imagine that Boris and Trump won't manage to be the top two in terms of the exponential potential. Given the incredible fuck ups by both, it couldn't possibly be surpassed by others, particularly how dumb and stupid our general populations are.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on March 29, 2020, 02:07:15 AM
It's a shame there weren't some proper examples and substance in there. It's not exactly wikileaks level whistleblowing if you see what I mean. Good though, I suspect most doctors would just quit their post. Must have been difficult to put their name to it.

I think that is one of the many curses of being a junior doctor. If you quit it means you quit medicine for good as no health board will touch you again. In the current situation though the NHS workers at least have the safety net of the media being on their side. We the UK population have always needed junior doctors but they and all their frontline NHS colleagues have been taken for granted and treated like shit. Now as Rocket has said several times 'this shits gotten real' all the bad will, 'Im suing the healthboard for calling me fat', 'They are all workshy scroungers for having the gall to take a day off once a month' and so on is suddenly all forgotten.

Theres lots of media stories now about how wonderful the public & businesses are being in their support for NHS workers (free stuff, discounts, how many of the general public have volunteered to help them) however where was this goodwill, generosity and public spirit 3months ago?
3 months ago if a Nurse posted a video of themselves crying in their car because they'd reached their breaking point I have my doubts it would have made it much further than a facebook feed or a one show episode. Said Nurse would potentially have faced disciplinary proceedings, and eventually been forced out though internal bullying
3 months ago the above article would have made the left leaning papers but the right wing ones would have had so many counter stories from 'other' doctors who said everything was fine. The doctor would then potentially have faced a similar fate to the nurse.
3 months ago the best so many NHS frontline staff could expect would be sporadic box of chocolates/ bunch of flowers from the odd grateful family.
The so called 'super hospital' in Glasgow has lots of Nurses stations but hardly any break rooms, and the break rooms available are 10mins walk from many Nurses stations. Not exactly ideal when each Nurse only gets a 15min break so by the time they are 3/4 of the way to the break-room, they need to turn round and go back to work. Rules state they cant have hot drinks or have/ prepare food at the nurses station so what the fuck are they supposed to do?!
Kudos to the Architects on that one.

Tangent: At the end of my 1st year at Architecture school the tutor marking my final project - a kindergarten in Duthie Park - criticised/ chastised me for laying out the building based on information gathered from a former Nursery teacher. According to her it was my job to tell client's what they needed and how they should use a building.
That Glasgow hospital is a fine example of the sort of logic, arrogance and ignorance in the Architecture world which plays right into the hands of people who value price and asthetics over facilities and how a building will be used.

There was a doctor who called into 5live a couple of weeks back with his own version of the guardian article and just before he hung up he said something along the following lines.

'It is great that everyone is offering free stuff and discounts but when all this is over all I would like is
- a Room where my nurses can sit and have a break
- Free tea or coffee facilities in that room
- Facilities to store and make our own food rather than vending machines with inflated prices that are all to often broken or havent been filled.
- To not have to put up posters in the wards and receptions asking patients & visitors to please not spit, shout at, or assault our staff.'


All the rounds of applause in the world will be worthless if, should the virus be beaten, we just let the NHS go back to what it was & still is, which is what the tories & right wing merceneries want it to be.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 29, 2020, 02:12:12 AM
Great post TW.

My son's girlfriend wrote on Friday - instead of a round of applause, please don't vote Tory.

My wife on Thursday described the imminent clapping for the NHS a heap of shite.

Those are the only two front line NHS workers I know.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 29, 2020, 02:22:32 AM
This week, Channel 4 - the best mainstream news media by far - had interviews with a doctor and paramedic. Their identities were hidden and their voices overdubbed by actors. The reason for the cloak and dagger was to protect them as the crime of speaking the truth would have resulted in them getting fired. That's how much the Tories love the NHS. The last ten years have been systematically fucking the NHS by stealth. John Pilger's documentary was only three months ago and unsurprisingly, neither the BBC nor ITV ran with it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: manc_don on March 29, 2020, 04:47:19 AM
10 mins from the nurses station? That's fucking awful, who were the architects for that, is that the super campus?  Not really followed much of the architecture back home for a while. Both architects and clients should hang their heads in shame.  Although having worked in mental health care design, i'm surprised there were allowed to do that? Usually processes in place to make sure it's all quite logical.

My wife was surprised by my lack of enthusiasm for the "NHS clap". But she's not as cynical as I, but I found the whole thing cringe and a massive piece of political shite.

We had our first Corona related death today. Really hope we didn't close our borders too late. Vast majority of cases are still related to international travel.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 29, 2020, 08:40:42 AM
In Roma, they had a spontaneous clap from the balconies for actual healthcare staff who had passed through. It was filmed, went viral and everybody went Awww. It was a beautiful thing.

Some lassie a couple of weeks later thought it was a good idea to do it here, proposed it, it went viral and Boris got filmed jolly japestering on his front door hours before mild symptoming, he and Piers Morgan describing it thereafter in the most maximum of gushing terms e.g. "deeply moving".

Piers is an absolute dick of course but has generally been very good this month in banging the government with fairly-earned contemptuous criticism.

Like everything, the original was best and the copies a weak imitation. The video in London which caught the boy having a wank was ironic. He obviously missed the memo although having curtains/blinds open to the extent that he could've been seen was pretty disturbing.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on March 29, 2020, 02:46:09 PM
10 mins from the nurses station? That's fucking awful, who were the architects for that, is that the super campus?  Not really followed much of the architecture back home for a while. Both architects and clients should hang their heads in shame.  Although having worked in mental health care design, i'm surprised there were allowed to do that? Usually processes in place to make sure it's all quite logical.


IBI Nightingale apparently.

Id like to think break rooms were provided every couple of floors in each quadrant but some genius decided those rooms could be better used for something else (which i understand is very common in existing hospitals).
However the design of the A & E Reception makes me doubt that.

As for processes and logic being in place, rather than gradually closing the various hospitals this campus was to replace over a couple of years, I understand they just shut those hospitals pretty much immediately forcing hundreds of patients and staff both into a completely new set up with little or no guidance or assistance, and into buildings which were still within the snagging/ defects liability period and fuck me if they havent found some spectacular defects in that place.

A common curse of how our wonderful UK works.
Qualifications based on paper (ie book learning and exams to get some letters after your name) all to often trump qualifications based on experience (the person who started in the stockroom and worked their way to the boardroom), and allocating the correct time to plan something, and/or backing down, admitting you made a mistake, and re-thinking things which arent working is seen as weak leadership so all to often change finally comes after years of ineffieciency/ failure rather than weeks or months by which time the damage is permanant.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 29, 2020, 06:56:03 PM
Grampian doing well comparatively. So far.

https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on March 29, 2020, 08:57:30 PM
https://www.esquire.com/uk/life/a31915611/coronavirus-timeline/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on March 30, 2020, 12:22:39 PM
Dominic Cummings now. They’ve done a great job of following their own advice!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 30, 2020, 01:20:23 PM
We watched the Trump press briefing live from the Rose Garden last night. It was more of the same. We then flicked through some news channels and I watched CNN for the first time in years. It was amazing. Some guy called Dom or Don Lemon and a team of experts analysed what the President had said and showed clips of what he had been saying previously. It was factual reporting, not the fake news that Trump says it is. I knew that a huge number on social media were big on exposing the stupidity and the lies but I didn't know a mainstream media outlet were honest enough and courageous enough to report truth. This is bitter and it is sweet. Trump is clinically insane.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on March 30, 2020, 02:18:37 PM
We watched the Trump press briefing live from the Rose Garden last night. It was more of the same. We then flicked through some news channels and I watched CNN for the first time in years. It was amazing. Some guy called Dom or Don Lemon and a team of experts analysed what the President had said and showed clips of what he had been saying previously. It was factual reporting, not the fake news that Trump says it is. I knew that a huge number on social media were big on exposing the stupidity and the lies but I didn't know a mainstream media outlet were honest enough and courageous enough to report truth. This is bitter and it is sweet. Trump is clinically insane.
There's plenty of clips of our government officials saying similar as well but our media seems to be complicit in allowing them to spout whatever pish they want and not hold them accountable for it.  From Boris on This Morning just 3 weeks ago saying we should just take this on the chin to the whole party wanting to implement herd immunity and the off the record comments from Cummings.  Sadly because Trump has ran with this fake news thing it means that most of those that have fallen for it are too dumb to see the truth and acknowledge it, too many people have picked their side and won't concede even when those they support completely fuck up, we're living in a very strange time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 30, 2020, 02:44:46 PM
There's plenty of clips of our government officials saying similar as well but our media seems to be complicit in allowing them to spout whatever pish they want and not hold them accountable for it.  From Boris on This Morning just 3 weeks ago saying we should just take this on the chin to the whole party wanting to implement herd immunity and the off the record comments from Cummings.  Sadly because Trump has ran with this fake news thing it means that most of those that have fallen for it are too dumb to see the truth and acknowledge it, too many people have picked their side and won't concede even when those they support completely fuck up, we're living in a very strange time.

Yep, I think the Guardian ran something on Boris' ever changing positions. There have been a lot. Even in the last 24 hours, Gove has downgraded his 10,000 per day to "the capacity for 10,000 test per day". I appreciate that it is very difficult for journalists to be completely on top of the current position, given the pace at which things are moving, but it's almost like they haven't prepared any follow up questions whatsoever when they speak to politicians (or football managers for that matter). Ask question -> get response -> thank interviewee for response. Rather than have data to hand ready to raise the pertinent questions as soon as they begin their pish. As Rocket has mentioned a few times, the channel four guys are significantly more prepared and better at asking questions.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 30, 2020, 03:04:30 PM
There's plenty of clips of our government officials saying similar as well but our media seems to be complicit in allowing them to spout whatever pish they want and not hold them accountable for it.  From Boris on This Morning just 3 weeks ago saying we should just take this on the chin to the whole party wanting to implement herd immunity and the off the record comments from Cummings.  Sadly because Trump has ran with this fake news thing it means that most of those that have fallen for it are too dumb to see the truth and acknowledge it, too many people have picked their side and won't concede even when those they support completely fuck up, we're living in a very strange time.

One of the experts on CNN in the early hours of this morning mentioned the UK and our failed Herd Immunity strategy. Rico and me smelt shite and said it made no sense to us within hours of hearing about it for the first time.

The biggest crimes against humanity in the west have been Boris and Trump not seeing the severity of the situation quickly enough. There is a mountain of evidence online to convict Trump in this regard and in the UK, the schools closures and the social isolation/distancing/lockdown measures were implemented by a reactive government too late, reacting purely on public demands including non-government-employed scientists and social media rather than "the science" that they said they were following in their laughable attempts to present themselves as leading the fight.

When Blow Job said Operation Last Gasp in relation to the ventilators one week ago, this was more to do with his contrived image of being a jolly japester more than him being flippant about the virus, although it did reveal the depths of his inhumanity. The BBC, ITV and Sky have been giving the inept government too easy a ride. The damage has been done and many thousands of lives have been and will be lost by failing to act with intelligence.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 30, 2020, 03:27:59 PM
In my non-expert opinion, this released today is irresponsible: -

Professor Neil Ferguson of Imperial College London said he was being given NHS data that showed a slowing in new hospital admissions as social distancing measures imposed in recent weeks start to have an effect.

For a start, many are asymptomatic in the first days and we have yet to get close to the top of the curve. Even Trump had been told to say last night that calling victory too early on this war would be a big mistake. It was only last weekend that Snowdonia reported their highest ever visitor numbers. We have seen packed tubes last week, packed streets in Birmingham, packed supermarket queues everywhere and tons of non-essential workers (including in construction) still mixing. We should see more of the Cheltenham racegoers coming to hospital imminently as their symptoms would've started recently and may worsen now. I wonder how many of them have since died or who are on ventilators? We did NOT stop spreading the virus in big enough numbers until 6 or 7 days ago so more shit will inevitably hit the fan.

I wonder if this academic (and therefore possibly not of the real world, and even more likely not to be if this government choose him to be within their select circle) has been inspired by "only" 209 dying in the 24 hours through Saturday, as reported on a Sunday? If today's figures aren't the highest daily death rate yet recorded, we might have some hope for optimism, that the plateau is within sight. It's way too early to know I reckon.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LA-Don on March 30, 2020, 05:52:01 PM
In my non-expert opinion, this released today is irresponsible: -

Professor Neil Ferguson of Imperial College London said he was being given NHS data that showed a slowing in new hospital admissions as social distancing measures imposed in recent weeks start to have an effect.

For a start, many are asymptomatic in the first days and we have yet to get close to the top of the curve. Even Trump had been told to say last night that calling victory too early on this war would be a big mistake. It was only last weekend that Snowdonia reported their highest ever visitor numbers. We have seen packed tubes last week, packed streets in Birmingham, packed supermarket queues everywhere and tons of non-essential workers (including in construction) still mixing. We should see more of the Cheltenham racegoers coming to hospital imminently as their symptoms would've started recently and may worsen now. I wonder how many of them have since died or who are on ventilators? We did NOT stop spreading the virus in big enough numbers until 6 or 7 days ago so more shit will inevitably hit the fan.

I wonder if this academic (and therefore possibly not of the real world, and even more likely not to be if this government choose him to be within their select circle) has been inspired by "only" 209 dying in the 24 hours through Saturday, as reported on a Sunday? If today's figures aren't the highest daily death rate yet recorded, we might have some hope for optimism, that the plateau is within sight. It's way too early to know I reckon.


Our numbers are still increasing in the US and we certainly haven’t hit our worst yet, and we are ahead of Britain in regards to taking steps to prevent the spreading. I’d expect Britain’s worst in 2-3 weeks so to say social distancing is already having positive results to me is totally wrong. All that will do, obviously, is encourage more people to socialize again. We’re not ready for that yet.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 30, 2020, 07:28:07 PM
In my non-expert opinion, this released today is irresponsible: -

Professor Neil Ferguson of Imperial College London said he was being given NHS data that showed a slowing in new hospital admissions as social distancing measures imposed in recent weeks start to have an effect.

I just saw the headline and assumed it was a heap of bollocks. I also read that they were talking about amending the recorded deaths to include those that occurred out with hospital settings, but I can't find where I read it. Were we seriously not recording deaths in homes? That seems a little negligent. Not that I'd expect the volumes to be huge, but they're likely to be going forward as hospitals become overcrowded and people are forced to stay at home. Anyway, I'm guessing lower admission to hospitals are because nae cunt wants to go near the Corona-ridden places and fancy their chances at home
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on March 30, 2020, 08:19:08 PM
And yet the Chief Scientific Advisor Patrick Vallance has said much the same thing.
What’s wrong with a bit of positivity? We don’t appear to be matching the trend of Italy anymore.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on March 30, 2020, 09:51:12 PM
And yet the Chief Scientific Advisor Patrick Vallance has said much the same thing.
What’s wrong with a bit of positivity? We don’t appear to be matching the trend of Italy anymore.
Going with financial times trajectories we are still on a par with them, I'm concerned that we aren't testing enough, Gove said yesterday that we have reached 10000 tests, however the actual number is only 7000, then Raab today has said "no test is better than a bad test" which implies that we simply aren't testing as much as we need to which in turn skews the numbers quite a bit, I fully expect out deaths to be quite high tomorrow and Wednesday.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 30, 2020, 10:50:51 PM
Going with financial times trajectories we are still on a par with them, I'm concerned that we aren't testing enough, Gove said yesterday that we have reached 10000 tests, however the actual number is only 7000, then Raab today has said "no test is better than a bad test" which implies that we simply aren't testing as much as we need to which in turn skews the numbers quite a bit, I fully expect out deaths to be quite high tomorrow and Wednesday.

As far as I can see - excluding the rich who paid privately - the only testing that is getting done is at hospital, the principal reason being to know who to isolate. The vast majority of our front line NHS staff have not been tested and therefore may still be acting as superspreaders.

Testing is vital of course but the data tracking is how we learn how to manage it. Given the incredibly slow pace at which the UK continues to test very insignificant numbers, each day that goes by is another opportunity lost. Even 6,000 tests per day - which may well be more than the daily average this month - is one hundredth of one per cent i.e. 0.01% of the population and at that rate, that's 10,000 days of testing required to cover the whole population, which would take more than 27 years. For clarity, I'm not saying that they need to test 100% of all people in the UK but these numbers give some context of how bad we've been thus far in the crucial testing requirement.

Deaths being lower for the second day in a row will hopefully prove to be a great sign but I think we need a few more days data before we can see any definitive trend.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on March 30, 2020, 11:08:57 PM
Going with financial times trajectories we are still on a par with them, I'm concerned that we aren't testing enough, Gove said yesterday that we have reached 10000 tests, however the actual number is only 7000, then Raab today has said "no test is better than a bad test" which implies that we simply aren't testing as much as we need to which in turn skews the numbers quite a bit, I fully expect out deaths to be quite high tomorrow and Wednesday.

I also dont think that the lockdown measures have been in place long enough to know enough as to how badly the UK is going to be hit by the virus, we just seem to be a bit too casual in our ouutlook this virus at government level.

Something just doesn't feel right with what we are being told by our government clowns and are these figures being fudged for political reasons to suit agendas?

Did anyone else want to boak when Bojo told us there was such a thing as society after all. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LA-Don on March 31, 2020, 12:05:22 AM
Media in California today saying that ‘experts’ predict we will peak at the end of April, so we are a month out! I’d assume Britain is similar or worse.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 31, 2020, 12:13:53 AM
1. I also dont think that the lockdown measures have been in place long enough to know enough as to how badly the UK is going to be hit by the virus, we just seem to be a bit too casual in our ouutlook this virus at government level.

2. Something just doesn't feel right with what we are being told by our government clowns and are these figures being fudged for political reasons to suit agendas?

3. Did anyone else want to boak when Bojo told us there was such a thing as society after all.

1. I agree. It's too early to know.

2. I agree in that I understand your lack of trust in this government but trying to fudge the figures would be a big mistake, if they were stupid enough to try, which I'm not sure that even they are.

I have been surprised that the daily death rates have been reported as 87, 43, 113, 181, 269, 207 and 180 for the last seven days. They explained the 43 as them cutting off the timing of the counting to 1 p.m. (for the deaths that day) but I certainly didn't expect the daily totals to go down two days in a row at this stage, so soon after a fudged lockdown that came way too late anyway. Why would they, given what we know about the virus and how it hit the populations in other countries at the same stages of the process? Now that the arsehole Sir is mentioning the at-home deaths as he did today, I too wonder if they're under-reporting these last 48 hours. It will wash out, I'm sure.

3. I did see that Blow Job was speaking about that but haven't had time to check out that article so will get round to it now.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 31, 2020, 12:20:49 AM
Media in California today saying that ‘experts’ predict we will peak at the end of April, so we are a month out! I’d assume Britain is similar or worse.

I was surprised that you wrote this: -

Our numbers are still increasing in the US and we certainly haven’t hit our worst yet, and we are ahead of Britain in regards to taking steps to prevent the spreading.

Is that incompatible, being ahead of the UK in "taking steps to prevent" and you saying that we may be worse? It's probably my misinterpreting your words but I don't know the extent of the US overall lockdown, or at least how well or otherwise it's being observed.

We watched Trump live again tonight. Not as car crash tragic as usual this time but he did manage to berate a couple of questioners for quoting him back his own words just as he did yesterday. He's a fucking walloper that cunt. The US is going to go stratospheric in the death rate this week I reckon.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 31, 2020, 08:57:58 AM
Yep, the LA area might be okay (I don't know), but the US as a whole isn't way ahead of the UK. It's vastly behind on testing and very short on supplies, much like the UK. Obviously comparing the US and the UK is a little unfair on the US, but Europe, collectively, is ahead of the US in terms of testing and preparedness, with massive variations country to country of course. I'm guessing the state to state outcomes will be similar. I'd be interested to know why you think the US is faring better LA don?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 31, 2020, 01:54:08 PM
It's been interesting seeing the alternative views on the crisis, questioning the need for wrecking the economy and arguing that the cost of the lockdown measures aren't proportionate to the devastation of the disease. Lord Sumption's interview yesterday was picked up as being critical of heavy-handed policing and "a police state" would've blinded the "panic-buyers", the likes of Piers Morgan being the champion, but have we all been duped and into panicking about a virus that wouldn't prove to be that devastating anyway? Sumption makes some good points. It's a pity Peter Hitchens is his strong advocate but in Peter and Piers, it's quite sweet that we have two similarly unlovable pompous arseholes at either side of the debate.

Trump said last week that the cure can't be worse than the disease but he's such a mad money-centric narcissist with an astonishing capacity to hold no empathy for other people, he's not a serious listen but even on this thread last week, there were some experts giving alternative views.

Interesting extremes of strategies being put on the table now. As a non-expert on virology and epidemiology, I was inclined to swallow the mass-induced view and bought the need to panic but as a constantly-questioning open mind, it's going to be fascinating to see the alternative points of view grow legs, if indeed they do.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 31, 2020, 02:07:22 PM
https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/

Here's one such alternative view. Stanford University is one of the best seats of learning on the planet.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 31, 2020, 02:24:47 PM
This one hits my spot. We simply don't have enough proper data: -

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=361s&v=LsExPrHCHbw
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 31, 2020, 02:30:26 PM
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-evidence-on-Covid-19-is-not-as-clear-as-we-think/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Indisputably intelligent reasoning here too.

Without testing, we have no real data. Without data, we can't know what to do.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dons8321 on March 31, 2020, 03:18:49 PM
1. I agree. It's too early to know.

2. I agree in that I understand your lack of trust in this government but trying to fudge the figures would be a big mistake, if they were stupid enough to try, which I'm not sure that even they are.

I have been surprised that the daily death rates have been reported as 87, 43, 113, 181, 269, 207 and 180 for the last seven days. They explained the 43 as them cutting off the timing of the counting to 1 p.m. (for the deaths that day) but I certainly didn't expect the daily totals to go down two days in a row at this stage, so soon after a fudged lockdown that came way too late anyway. Why would they, given what we know about the virus and how it hit the populations in other countries at the same stages of the process? Now that the arsehole Sir is mentioning the at-home deaths as he did today, I too wonder if they're under-reporting these last 48 hours. It will wash out, I'm sure.


From Guardian online today (and this is only figures for England) -
28m ago      English death toll rises by 367 to 1,651
14:47          A total of 1,651 people who have tested positive for coronavirus in England have died, up 367 from 1,284 on Monday, NHS England said.

Looks like saying social distancing was working is a little premature
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on March 31, 2020, 04:59:15 PM
Indisputably intelligent reasoning here too.

Without testing, we have no real data. Without data, we can't know what to do.

I suppose that you have to look at South Korea or Iceland (I think it was Iceland) who have done extensive testing. I agree, that testing is - and always has been - the key to it. It seems to be that the mortality rate will not be anymore than normal flu assuming that yer hospitals can cope with the influx, but if your hospitals get overwhelmed then lots more people die. Sweden will be an interesting case in point, as they have put few measures in place and are not testing in huge volumes either. But at the moment, we have data from Italy, which suggests that an unrestricted virus will infect enough people that hospitals will not cope and tens of thousands will die. We have data from South Korea that says testing and isolating based only on the results of those tests will allow people some level of freedom, whilst others remain isolated and significantly less die. What we may be able to say is that in Italy and probably the UK, we may end up with a similar number of deaths than if we hadn't bothered, because the health service(s) are/will be overwhelmed, and I expect that'll be used to make the: "it wouldn't have made a difference what we did" case, which of course ignores South Korea's approach. I suppose the one thing that we have to remember about the hospitals being overwhelmed, is that it really isn't very long since the English NHS had a small child sleeping on their floor covered in jackets being ignored by the Prime Minister. Arguably the NHS has been overwhelmed for some time and people will already have beeen dying because of this over the last decade, so perhaps this virus just give it a convenient package.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on March 31, 2020, 05:22:10 PM
Looks like saying social distancing was working is a little premature

It certainly was, as we said.

Today's shocking number is tragic but what concerns me is that they are quoting 380 dead today and a total of 1,789 and yet the total dead yesterday was 1,415, which is 374 less than the new total. This has been happening daily, that the amount of daily deaths and the new totals don't follow mathematically from the total quoted the day before.

I had learned that Sky and the Guardian and the BBC etc. will often have slightly different numbers - possibly due to the timings and whether or not they failed to take into account the daily fatalities in Wales, Northern ireland or Scotland - but I really can't understand the government making very simple arithmetical errors on MOST of the days in the last 3 weeks. This alone makes a (very slight) contribution to my (already entrenched) distrust of the UK Westminster government.

Live right now, following on from the "green shoots" of false optimism they started spinning yesterday, they're selectively using stats and charts to attempt to provide a basis for their new-found optimism. This government are liars and the U-turn they've done on two major social impacts are proof enough to me that they're fucking useless.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: baggy89 on March 31, 2020, 09:55:53 PM
Picked up that the thinking around today’s increase is that they were just counting confirmed (tested) hospital patients who became fatalities. Today they started to include suspected hospitalised cases, and we will see another “correction” when they start to count those passing at home both confirmed and suspected.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LA-Don on March 31, 2020, 11:02:04 PM
Yep, the LA area might be okay (I don't know), but the US as a whole isn't way ahead of the UK. It's vastly behind on testing and very short on supplies, much like the UK. Obviously comparing the US and the UK is a little unfair on the US, but Europe, collectively, is ahead of the US in terms of testing and preparedness, with massive variations country to country of course. I'm guessing the state to state outcomes will be similar. I'd be interested to know why you think the US is faring better LA don?

I’m not saying that the US is faring better. In my post I mentioned media claiming we’ll hit our worst at the end of april and it Sounds like you might be at your worst in 2-3 weeks. I’m just going by what family are saying in the uk, and what I’m reading, suggests you haven’t hit your worst either, and two days of good news doesn’t mean you’re past your worst. Certainly hope you are but don’t see it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Madbadteacher on March 31, 2020, 11:12:22 PM
Illinois today: 937 new cases; 36 deaths; total cases now 5994; deaths 99

“Stay at home order extended to April 40th
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 01, 2020, 03:04:20 AM
You know that Boris fucked up when Trump called the herd immunity "concept" as "catastrophic" and pointing out the BIG U-turn that the Westminster government took.

The WHO were screaming at us for weeks and other countries were in touch to warn us but when Trump is scoring political points at our expense, we know we have the wrong leadership.

The NY Times were bang on about Boris. They nailed it: -

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/opinion/coronavirus-uk-boris-johnson.html#click=https://t.co/ab91Q71L1I

"The problem is that he has been preparing for the wrong part. The man came to power playing Falstaff, a double-dealing, comically entertaining, shameless rogue; now he is suddenly onstage as Henry V, the wartime king whose solemn judgment, intense focus, charisma and conviction must lead his nation in a time of crisis. Mr. Johnson does not know how to play that part, and it shows. This is not a rehearsal. His careless, inexcusable reluctance to track and halt the virus earlier will have cost lives".
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 01, 2020, 04:02:25 AM
If the "alternative views" that have been championed prove to be sound, Trump may well have been right when he said "the cure can not be more damaging that the disease" (not that he's got the intellect to think anything through by any average standard of semi-intelligent critical thinking).

Given the unemployment figures that are due in the US and also the UK and the (currently) immeasurable damage to the economy resulting in the exchequer being starved of collectible taxes, and already borrowing trillions to fight the virus, the fraudulent "austerity" they imposed on us for YEARS will be a picnic in comparison.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 01, 2020, 04:18:02 AM
Thoughts on this?  https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/24/12-experts-questioning-the-coronavirus-panic/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=4725dcc4b8208dd39c3832912322c5754d8905f0-1585233996-0-AXgnp9BA0sR2N1_lYNVo4MXLhR2XgOXfCcvhK25DVPJYtju8EUekWMGsfpaOxRgDaddO3rff9M2QzGO3fVgOB0I0_UudL8qZ0vhiVsWD3KddBCcpBJM02BiEYbYPMi-DRsx-nE5ckqQf8DRrJqTMNUwzWawbun873pHYqs0Y8Fp5eWPf7XC4OhGrgD3MDVos7YvGzLBc4D3Nj4SD4hRUg6ODXCLmUKnkTdxtaUlyGrK9TpqQOrapW6iaS85dgNw6RVI8EODzW7yICLtqz2SvtP6EdxjNoZxiP2CrycIzljVAKEk6jVNNdROMPnb0JTEao7308bSLckLpbQkKhIIEpx00-STjkej2ZkfiQmhZhKoe

 …..and a good listen on the Joe Rogan show if you've time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw&fbclid=IwAR0xSolMDTiD9DUfHByIMjlHie9ZnA_qrRj_r02KijyZpuGUrXDS_TGVmXM

Michael Osterholm was interviewed by Don Lemon on CNN just now. He said that the projections of death rates are based on a model that may well be completely wrong. He also pointed out that the healthcare system in the US is considerably worse today than it was in 2005 when he published that they were hopelessly unprepared for the next pandemic which was inevitably coming.

Given the Tory mismanagement of the NHS for ten years - mostly by design rather than simple incompetence - there are obvious parallels between the US and the UK. Osterholm said that the ONLY way out of this crisis is for the government to have a plan, something he was adamant that the US federal government did NOT have. There's another mutual failing between the blond buffoons.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on April 01, 2020, 02:25:56 PM
BIG rise in the numbers today, 563.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 01, 2020, 02:26:06 PM
544 deaths reported today. Now we are seeing exponential. Inevitably and tragically.

Fuck the government.

Edit: Yeah, 563 seems to be the number for most news outlets now. At least the quoted total today makes sense arithmetically for a change.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on April 01, 2020, 04:07:53 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/coronavirus-questions-uk-government-boris-johnson-nhs-a9439371.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 01, 2020, 04:14:39 PM
Peston on Twitter exposed Gove's lies yesterday about the reason for the pathetic testing rate.

In terms of the botched lockdown, we saw pictures of tube travellers yesterday but this was a shock: -

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8175857/Piers-Morgan-NHS-heroes-led-donkeys-Boris-overrule-experts-tests.html

The passengers on the many flights still coming in aren't being screened. Well, it wouldn't really be a shock given this government but it is beyond belief that any competent country would fail to do anything with incoming people. This government STILL aren't taking it seriously enough.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 01, 2020, 04:18:37 PM
The Netherlands became the 8th country to trip 1,000 dead yesterday and Germany and Belgium will make it 10 before the weekend. I said 5,000 dead in April but I didn't anticipate it would be the first week in April which it will be given that we have closed March with almost half that.

The "top 10" are all over 2,000 now but there's so much stuff out there on the internet, it's difficult for any open mind to swallow much of it. I don't know what to believe in so many respects. I know not to trust the UK and US governments however.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on April 01, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
Todays figures are not really a shock given the initial response from our government, but still don't make good reading.

The thing I find most disturbing is the lack of testing for our NHS staff, that should be unforgivable to anyone with an ounce of decency in their bones and would expect it to be remembered come the next election, which would be far more a thank you to the NHS staff than any amount of hand clapping of an evening.

I was reading how much people the Germans are testing and it only highlights how bad the overall infrastructure of our country really is.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 01, 2020, 05:10:33 PM
Todays figures are not really a shock given the initial response from our government, but still don't make good reading.

The thing I find most disturbing is the lack of testing for our NHS staff, that should be unforgivable to anyone with an ounce of decency in their bones and would expect it to be remembered come the next election, which would be far more a thank you to the NHS staff than any amount of hand clapping of an evening.

I was reading how much people the Germans are testing and it only highlights how bad the overall infrastructure of our country really is.

An example today (and I'm hearing many shocking individual examples EVERY day) was a district nurse instructed to look after one elderly patient in his home (North East) who had tested positive. In other words, they have decided not to admit him to hospital and have already decided that he should die. The nurse was crying when she consulted my wife because she has an asthmatic son and is NOT being provided with ANY PPE whatsoever. She doesn't want to go home obviously and so they have arranged accommodation for her in Aberdeen. The old man and his wife live on a farm and have been isolated for two weeks and with their son dropping off essential shopping at the door, it is almost certain that it took 14 days before he was sick enough to be diagnosed.

It's the same the UK over. Elderly Parkinsons and neurological patients are going to be very lucky to see a hospital, let alone a ventilator and my wife's patients are already dying with Covid-19 in Grampian and the North.

My daughter volunteered to staff the testing labs in response to a cry for help e-mail that the government and the NHS put out to qualified medical students and staff more than six weeks ago. She has yet to hear back, like every one of her peers who she knows similarly put their hands up.

It's a shitshow now, just as it always has been under these cunts in charge. It was only 9 days ago that Blow Job jolly jested about Operation Last Gasp. The number of NHS staff who have been tested is an embarrassingly minute percentage of the total front line staff and our government have been lying to us EVERY SINGLE DAY. Hancock said that he had the military distributing that weekend and led us to believe that the country had swung into action. The NHS staff are telling us that they haven't been tested and they're not in receipt of the basic tools they need to do their jobs.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 01, 2020, 05:28:14 PM
Massive change of tone today in the questions at the daily briefings. Even Laura Kuntsberg had a dig, making an excellent three-pronged attack which of course, like EVERY tough question they ever get, is met with a three-pronged defence in that they either lie, deflect against or downright ignore.

Laura is a slut. She kept her fucking weird sideways mouth shut the whole time and only now that social media and Piers Morgan and more and more articles are highlighting the shitness of the government, she's coming over. Investigative journalists are supposed to lead, not follow.

This secretary of state cunt is a slimeball, just like every single one of them. Jenrick got slaughtered again today, on Sky and by Piers. That cunt gets battered every time he appears, the Lancet editor guy disembowelling him last week on QT.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Madbadteacher on April 01, 2020, 09:12:14 PM
Today’s Illinois update: 986 new 42 deaths.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on April 01, 2020, 09:25:44 PM
All this money getting spunked on COVID-19 will make it a convenient scapegoat when Boris’s Brexit plans all go tits up.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on April 01, 2020, 10:09:42 PM
Was reading on twitter that some student nurses have been threatened and forced in to doing the job they aren't yet qualified for.  They've been told that if they don't opt in to work they face having the course withdrawn along with their bursary,
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 01, 2020, 10:13:53 PM
All this money getting spunked on COVID-19 will make it a convenient scapegoat when Boris’s Brexit plans all go tits up.

Can anyone tell me what this post means?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 02, 2020, 12:34:21 PM
And yet the Chief Scientific Advisor Patrick Vallance has said much the same thing.
What’s wrong with a bit of positivity? We don’t appear to be matching the trend of Italy anymore.

What's "wrong" is that they are lying to us and given the millions of sources for information available to us all, it's only the gullible, lazy or stupid who can't see through the spin.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 02, 2020, 12:37:48 PM
By all decent accounts, the peak will hit in the next couple of weeks and the deaths thereafter won't be exponential and should then start to reduce.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 02, 2020, 01:43:29 PM
Fuck me, weird just got weirder: -

https://youtu.be/LU8U9zRyre4

For clarity, I'm not saying I agree with it. Not qualified to know but sounds absurd to me.


Edit: Daughter watched it and reckons he's a whack job, for being anti vaccines, for extrapolating a lot from nothing and for making a wild correlation that fails to understand the basics about biology and radiation.

Edit: She's shared that video with her scientist mates and they're all laughing at the idiocy of the guy. One made a good point just now i.e. how do we even know he was ex-CEO of anything!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 02, 2020, 03:16:30 PM
Spain joins Italy in the 10,000+ deaths count. USA will catch them next.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 02, 2020, 06:28:39 PM
The Netherlands became the 8th country to trip 1,000 dead yesterday and Germany and Belgium will make it 10 before the weekend.

Correction. Before Friday.

These are horrible numbers globally. I hope these governments are capable of learning and will be better prepared in the future. I can't see that our country, being run by a failed journalist as we are can possibly do anything with competence and intelligence.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 02, 2020, 08:35:48 PM
Hancock just lied on QT. The university labs have NOT been involved. They were asked to but the government (via the various bodies) never came back to them.

Particularly galling when he's bigging up the private sector, spending money and ignoring free volunteers.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on April 02, 2020, 10:22:18 PM
Hancock just lied on QT. The university labs have NOT been involved. They were asked to but the government (via the various bodies) never came back to them.

Particularly galling when he's bigging up the private sector, spending money and ignoring free volunteers.
See this is what annoys me with the government here and especially with Trump, he's created the fake news narrative and continues to peddle it.  The Tories have done it on a much smaller scale but both love to put out their own lies which go unchallenged and those that support them are too thick so just believe it, the BBC the other day congratulating Boris for "calling on more testing" was shameful, hold the sleekit cunt accountable for the pish he spouts.

Read this earlier https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-congratulates-businesses-for-helping-fight-coronavirus-but-his-own-company-has-been-absent
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 03, 2020, 12:44:24 AM
Incredible how "alternative theories" grow legs and incredible how quick they get closed down.

https://amp.theguardian.com/media/2020/apr/02/uk-media-outlets-told-not-to-promote-baseless-5g-coronavirus-theories?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-51646309?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 03, 2020, 02:17:25 AM
This whole Coronavirus issue stinks. Ok, it's been hard to believe anything the government and the globalist agenda tells us and there is always the crying wolf thing to be aware of but what's really happening here?

I've gone back to what my instinct was telling me the first time.

I have NO idea what's going on but something ain't ringing true for me.

For the record I can't believe it's related to 5G.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 03, 2020, 09:35:40 AM
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-evidence-on-Covid-19-is-not-as-clear-as-we-think/amp?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 03, 2020, 10:11:58 AM
https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2020/03/theres-powerful-evidence-this-great-panic-is-foolish-yet-our-freedom-is-still-broken-and-our-economy.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LA-Don on April 03, 2020, 05:21:20 PM
I’m fascinated by this whole situation. Endless conspiracy theories too.

Pretty sure I had corona in January, as did my son and a number of friends. My school had a 30% absence rate in January due to a very strong ‘flu.’ I had it for 3 weeks, fever, heavy chesty cough, blood shot eyes etc. Took my 3 year old to the doctor 3 times before they told him it was pneumonia. I went shortly after saying I had exactly what my son had, the hospital was too busy to send me for a chest X-ray, but she listened to my lungs, said I was fine, and it was a bad flu. Gave me 3 different prescriptions and it went away in around a week.

Anyway, if it came from China in November/December, makes sense that it arrives in Los Angeles shortly after that. Only now, or recently, are they calling it covid19.

What gets me is that what are the numbers of those with flu and dying of flu. Regardless of them having treatment and vaccines for flu, what are those numbers?

This whole situation doesn’t sit right with me. Not sure what to think or believe.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 03, 2020, 05:32:47 PM
Osterholm was on CNN an hour ago. He again re-emphasised that we (the US) need a national plan and said that the lockdown is going to last months not weeks. He also pointed out that new infections in China and South Korea are now spiking since they relaxed their social measures. Unlike these fucking cretins doing the UK and US daily briefings, Michael Osterholm speaks with great intelligence and a deep authority based on decades of experience. Hancock just spins shit and knows less about medicine and healthcare than most.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 03, 2020, 07:45:40 PM
Spain joins Italy in the 10,000+ deaths count. USA will catch them next.

France will be 4th and by the time Boris's Buggered (us) become the 5th nation to lose 10,000, the USA may well be leading the death race.

But nobody's counting the deaths properly. Included in the figures, including in NHS Grampian are elderly patients who died of cardiac arrest or kidney failure but because they had tested Covid-positive, didn't get the usual treatment they would normally have got but for a decision to let them die.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on April 03, 2020, 10:46:03 PM
Rough current death rates for each part of the UK(based on population not number of infections - whether or not these countries are definetely recording all coronovirus deaths is up for debate)

Northern Ireland - 1 per 39,208 people
Scotland - 1 per 31,616 people
Wales - 1 per 22,262 people
England - 1 per 17,224 people

Compared to:

Italy - 1 per 4,120 people
Spain - 1 per 4,166 people
Belgium - 1 per 9,973 people
France - 1 per 10,312 people
Netherlands - 1 per 11,553 people
Luxembourg - 1 per 19,419 people
Ireland - 1 per 40,250 people
Portugal - 1 per 41,829 people
USA - 1 per 46,319 people
Germany - 1 per 64,933 people
China - 1 per 417,218 people

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on April 04, 2020, 07:07:02 AM
Rough current death rates for each part of the UK(based on population not number of infections - whether or not these countries are definetely recording all coronovirus deaths is up for debate)

Northern Ireland - 1 per 39,208 people
Scotland - 1 per 31,616 people
Wales - 1 per 22,262 people
England - 1 per 17,224 people

Compared to:

Italy - 1 per 4,120 people
Spain - 1 per 4,166 people
Belgium - 1 per 9,973 people
France - 1 per 10,312 people
Netherlands - 1 per 11,553 people
Luxembourg - 1 per 19,419 people
Ireland - 1 per 40,250 people
Portugal - 1 per 41,829 people
USA - 1 per 46,319 people
Germany - 1 per 64,933 people
China - 1 per 417,218 people

The China figure sticks out like a sore thumb, which makes you think they are not telling us the truth, but on the other hand they did lockdown very quickly and it would have been strictly upheld, but the number just doesn't look right in that context.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on April 04, 2020, 10:22:08 AM
The China figure sticks out like a sore thumb, which makes you think they are not telling us the truth, but on the other hand they did lockdown very quickly and it would have been strictly upheld, but the number just doesn't look right in that context.

It all depends if they have given the actual number.
China's population is more than 4 times as much as the USA.
India is the one to look at given they have a population similar to China's with a higher population density however they have only reported 68 deaths

Those figures will need adjusting as they are based on 2018 populations
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on April 04, 2020, 10:34:56 AM
It all depends if they have given the actual number.
China's population is more than 4 times as much as the USA.
India is the one to look at given they have a population similar to China's with a higher population density however they have only reported 68 deaths

Those figures will need adjusting as they are based on 2018 populations

Got to be a big worry if it really takes hold amongst the poor of India and Pakistan and other poorer nations. Look how much problems it has caused in the so called developed world.

It is just one big mess this whole thing and going to get a lot worse yet.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on April 04, 2020, 03:46:18 PM
Rough current death rates for each part of the UK(based on population not number of infections - whether or not these countries are definetely recording all coronovirus deaths is up for debate)

Northern Ireland - 1 per 39,208 people
Scotland - 1 per 31,616 people
Wales - 1 per 22,262 people
England - 1 per 17,224 people

Update today

Northern Ireland - 1 per 33,607 people
Scotland - 1 per 24,955 people
Wales - 1 per 20,383 people
England - 1 per 14,212 people
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on April 04, 2020, 05:20:23 PM
Update today

Northern Ireland - 1 per 33,607 people
Scotland - 1 per 24,955 people
Wales - 1 per 20,383 people
England - 1 per 14,212 people

708 deaths today being reported in the daily update, including a 5 year old with underlying health issues.

Never good hearing about the deaths of bairns.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 05, 2020, 01:40:11 AM
Aye, tragic numbers and at the time of posting, 64,957 have been reported as dying with the virus.

The data trends show that the US and the UK are losing the highest percentages in the last week. By this I mean that their and our total deaths are rising at a bigger proportion than every other country in the world. The US death figure reported today was the worst national daily loss of any country thus far and I expect they will have the highest number of fatalities globally at some point well before the end of this month.

I guess a good question would be why? It's the same virus hitting the same human bodies. The virus doesn't recognise nationalities or ethnicity. Of course there will be reasonable contributory factors such as air quality, age demographics and smoker rates in Northern Italy but in the case of the two worst accelerating countries it may well be directly correlated to the "strategies", or rather the lack of them in both our countries.

Boris was going for zero lockdown, "take it on the chin" and herd immunity before a total U-turn almost two weeks ago and Trump similarly wasn't in favour of lockdown before being advised to finally take it seriously. Even then, there's still 7 or 8 states not in lockdown and as we've seen again today in England, the Westminster government's advice or recommendations or instructions (or whatever the fuck they're doing) isn't being adhered to on a total level.

Once again tonight, Trump showed his impatience and repeated his "the cure can't be worse than the problem itself" and I'm following the fascinating debate in the UK on whether or not the cost of lockdown is ultimately going to be "worth it". It's a pity that Piers Morgan and Peter Hitchens happen to be the beacons for these two opposing views as both are rather unfortunate personalities that I find distaste coming very naturally for but the truth may well come somewhere between them or indeed may attach to one of them when all's said and done, even though they couldn't be any further apart and are at completely extreme ends of the spectrum.

In due course we will learn whether total lockdown or zero lockdown was the best strategy. There actually may not even be an in-between on this one. I am inclined to go with total lockdown as early as possible - which was at least 2 /3 weeks earlier than Boris went for - and then releasing after 3 weeks. I'm not infected (I'm sure) and have had very little opportunity to be infected since the pubs shut so after 3 weeks of social isolation, I can't even see how new cases can occur (if we aren't mixing with anyone). That assumes the "science" that the virus either makes us real sick or goes away within 3 weeks and also assumes that a well-organised country can test quickly and efficiently. In fact the testing on a wide enough scale is the key to it all, the data determining the whole  economy. It's all a massive fuck up and I reckon God's karma is punishing us for electing such bad, unintelligent administrations. The data trends do show that we in the UK should hit a plateau in the middle of April but that assumes that we are all capable of staying at home. The US may well be the last country on earth to start to see the end of exponential "death growth" although I'm watching Sweden with interest too. If they start to explode in the next week or two, their "top of the mountain" may be last. Or then again the poorer countries will start to get a big volume of pain in May. Fuck knows. The only certainty to me is that the US and the UK will be the first five members of the 10,000 club whereas the data says that both Italy and Spain will be over the worst imminently, if they're not already.

Remarkable virus. Respect. It moves with maths. I wish it never came of course as there's the relatives and friends of 65,000 grieving just now and it will be in the millions before it's finished. I'm just praying that my family's two front line workers don't get infected. That's a lie. I don't pray, being agnostic. Love and peace and good luck to you and yours.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on April 05, 2020, 09:27:40 AM
You know the shit is getting serious when they have to wheel the Queen out to address the nation and keep the south of England happy.

Usually hauled out when it becomes apparent the Government have fucked up and it is a royal fuck up.

Some good stuff in the latest Private Eye about Covid and the Governments failings which really need hammered home to everyone.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on April 05, 2020, 09:32:48 AM
In due course we will learn whether total lockdown or zero lockdown was the best strategy. There actually may not even be an in-between on this one.

Agree with what you're saying, but not sure enty about this bit. The alternative was test test test. South Korea and China, Taiwan, Mongolia, Ireland etc all took this approach which means that they're total lockdown was/is only temporary, with a clear exit strategy i.e. managed lockdown. The fact is that there is no way round the virus. We're all practicing herd immunity, the key is simply how that's done. That's why I don't understand hitchen's point. He seems completely oblivious to the fact that the lockdown is only there to stop the NHS from being overwhelmed and he provides no solution to this. He does briefly mention that they would have coped, but with zero investigation and against current visible evidence.

A managed lockdown gives us a clear way out and a coherent plan that informs the public. Lockdown until you and a large enough portion in your area tests as immune, national database that you're removed from when clear. Restricted travel throughout. International visitors quarantine. Show the public that you have a start, a temporary middle and a clear end. Give the NHS the information that they need and allow the population to very slowly gain immunity over time. There'll still be deaths of course, just not as many as there would have been by letting the health service become inundated.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: donsdaft on April 05, 2020, 10:19:41 AM
The queen can shut her f’uckin mouth.

F’uckin bitch.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 05, 2020, 01:02:33 PM
That's why I don't understand hitchen's point.

His "point" is that Lord Sumption and the professors from Stanford and Mainz universities (I linked them above) are questioning the sanity of total lockdown. They're not the only ones. Frederick Forsyth also asked the same question (which I'm sure I also linked above) and many others, including the president of the US, know that economic lockdown can't last for months on end.

The debate is how many will have died anyway/would be saved by lockdown v. the trillions it costs to lockdown. As Hitchens correctly points out, dissent and opposition is essential for proper debate, a fundamental tenet of a functioning democracy.

It's a debate worth following. If you have some spare time on your hands, I recommend that you follow it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on April 05, 2020, 01:39:37 PM
His "point" is that Lord Sumption and the professors from Stanford and Mainz universities (I linked them above) are questioning the sanity of total lockdown. They're not the only ones. Frederick Forsyth also asked the same question (which I'm sure I also linked above) and many others, including the president of the US, know that economic lockdown can't last for months on end.

The debate is how many will have died anyway/would be saved by lockdown v. the trillions it costs to lockdown. As Hitchens correctly points out, dissent and opposition is essential for proper debate, a fundamental tenet of a functioning democracy.

It's a debate worth following. If you have some spare time on your hands, I recommend that you follow it.

But one side of that argument is a monetary value, and the other side is death. What happens after lockdown is another decision, just like austerity was. It's economic illiteracy to suggest that the economy can only behave in one specific way, and if hitchens or Frederick Forsyth believe that then they're no less deluded than the followers of David karesh or any other cultists. It's not like being trapped between a tsunami and a forest fire, two natural phenomena. The economy is man-made. We've designed it, and if we've designed it so that it lacks any resilience whatsoever, then we change it. More importantly, why are guys as intelligent as hitchens not asking that glaringly obvious question? Why aren't they questioning why it's possible for banks and governments just to suddenly say that mortgages don't have to be paid, and loans can be ignored, but yet these artificial balances require payment in normal times, for example? Why would anyone's thinking default to siding with the fictional economy over human lives without the real challenge being posed?

But all that aside, the NHS is currently struggling to cope and the number of people who will die because of this struggling, rather than the virus, is significant. That's the issue he skirts.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 05, 2020, 02:14:48 PM
But one side of that argument is a monetary value, and the other side is death.

Not as simple as that. Lockdown isn't just an economic consequence. Many will have run out of money already and millions of others will do so in the next month or so. The results of lockdown will kill a bigger number when we take into account the stress and the depression and the mass unemployment etc. How can minimum wage people and gig economy and other low paid workers pay for food now that they have no income and trust me, the government won't be capable/may not even want to get their welfare state functioning properly.

I'm already preparing for massive civil unrest when the desperate have no option but to be desperate. Fortunately we don't have guns in the UK (and I predict a bloodbath in the US) so I've only got a super-sharp flick knife and a hammer to protect me and my family and whilst these effects of lockdown aren't being discussed yet in the debate, it's a personal view that I see coming.

Your points about the "fictional economy" are good ones. I wish I could have similar faith that this fundamental basis could be challenged but for the fact that the capitalist globalist agenda - which I misspelled globalust just now, poetically or ironically - uses finance as a crucially important tool for mass control.


But all that aside, the NHS is currently struggling to cope and the number of people who will die because of this struggling, rather than the virus, is significant. That's the issue he skirts.

I agree with the principle that we could save the economy but we can't save lives and I struggle to fully comprehend where the Hitchens end of the spectrum sits with regard to basic humanity. I think they are right in pointing out that the global Covid death figures have been inflated by people dying with the virus rather than from it - I gave two specific examples last week on our own doorstep, in Aberdeen Royal Infirmary - but the lack of proper care to existing non-infected patients is killing many more, wholly down to the panic measures that Hancock's NHS are working under right now. TV is not data. Their argument has been supported by insiders saying that London hospitals ARE coping (and that Excel won't be required) but of course it's essential to prepare for worst case contingencies. As I say, there's a massive whole debate going on which includes experts in law, in medicine, in economics etc. and whilst Piers champions the total restriction of all liberties for all people, I would be alarmed at how certain he is on everything but for the fact we know he's a total penis, without a big intellect and is desperate to present himself as uber-humanitarian and a man of the people whereas the truth is that he's just a slut for self importance.

Fuck knows where the truth lies but it can be found with intelligent critical thinking. Some countries are getting it right. We, and the US, are getting everything so wrong.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 05, 2020, 03:37:34 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/y4q9D6q/Screenshot-2020-04-05-at-15-25-09.png)

This is what an exponential growth curve looks like.

Hoping for a plateau at some point in the next week or so.

Edit: correction, this graph will only "plateau" when people stop dying. I meant that the infections number should plateau and then come down as the total number of infected reduces. But I don't trust the infected numbers as there has been a minute fraction of the population tested (due to government incompetence) so we are flying blind, without a fucking clue how fast and widespread this disease spreads.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 05, 2020, 07:55:34 PM
Fuck knows where the truth lies but it can be found with intelligent critical thinking. Some countries are getting it right. We, and the US, are getting everything so wrong.

Ok let's have a go...

The key is testing. The "immunity passport" idea has merit. When the antibody tests and whether currently infected tests become widely available, the immune and the non-infected have no need to be isolated. The requirement to ensure that the virus doesn't recur is ongoing (until the science understands the nature of Covid-19) of course so regular individual testing is the key to unlock.

A piece of paper isn't going to cut it, as that spastic Hancock mooted and they have to embrace technology and App-base it, mandatorily although recognising that some don't have smartphones. Once the App is functioning, there's your data tracking and contact tracing doing all the work for you.

Infected people are immediately quarantined and everyone within their range since the date of their last test is urged to immediately retest. This all assumes that tests can be made available and are easy enough to self-diagnose, which currently isn't the case of course, particularly in the presently infected category. But that's the critical blueprint. Identify who's positive, who's negative and who's "passive" i.e. currently negative and possibly immune.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on April 05, 2020, 09:27:56 PM
Aye aye. BoJo admitted to hospital.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 06, 2020, 02:47:07 AM
This whole Coronavirus issue stinks. Ok, it's been hard to believe anything the government and the globalist agenda tells us and there is always the crying wolf thing to be aware of but what's really happening here? I don't trust the media either but the same pattern of spreading fear is again in operation...

I'm getting scared now. Is this virus planned? What will be in the vaccine that they will force on us? Will martial law be fully implemented this month? I don't think everything is what it seems.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: scotfree on April 06, 2020, 03:56:23 AM

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 06, 2020, 02:09:40 PM
With less than 50,000 cases in the UK, that's less than 0.1% of the population who have tested positive. With more than 99.9% of us not having the virus, is it proportionate to ask 50,000,000+ of us to be in lockdown? That's billions of pounds per day being lost with devastating effects being created.

Of course the woeful testing levels mean that some of the 99.9% can be currently infected or have recovered from having it but is the cure becoming worse than the problem? Is the problem big enough to merit such an extreme response? 17,000 on average die of the flu each year in the UK and one year recently had 27,000 deaths. Will that many die of this virus? Highly unlikely given the data and trends in other countries, even including the fact that the Covid deaths are being inflated by those dying with the virus rather than from the virus. I can't remember a lockdown when the flu was wiping out people in previous years.

The biggest question is WHY? What is the underlying agenda of the government? To save lives? Do we believe that? Are they even in charge? Why are they introducing us to draconian house-arrest measures, dramatically taking away many of our liberties and throwing billions of our wealth down the drain? Does our personal "wealth" even matter in where we are going?

Lots of questions. Very thin on answers.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on April 06, 2020, 05:52:49 PM
Suspect we’re not getting the full story about BoJo. He’s running the country but Raab hasn’t spoken to him since Saturday!  ???
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on April 06, 2020, 05:56:48 PM
With less than 50,000 cases in the UK, that's less than 0.1% of the population who have tested positive. With more than 99.9% of us not having the virus, is it proportionate to ask 50,000,000+ of us to be in lockdown? That's billions of pounds per day being lost with devastating effects being created.

Of course the woeful testing levels mean that some of the 99.9% can be currently infected or have recovered from having it but is the cure becoming worse than the problem? Is the problem big enough to merit such an extreme response? 17,000 on average die of the flu each year in the UK and one year recently had 27,000 deaths. Will that many die of this virus? Highly unlikely given the data and trends in other countries, even including the fact that the Covid deaths are being inflated by those dying with the virus rather than from the virus. I can't remember a lockdown when the flu was wiping out people in previous years.

The biggest question is WHY? What is the underlying agenda of the government? To save lives? Do we believe that? Are they even in charge? Why are they introducing us to draconian house-arrest measures, dramatically taking away many of our liberties and throwing billions of our wealth down the drain? Does our personal "wealth" even matter in where we are going?

Lots of questions. Very thin on answers.

It's the same answer as it has always been. It's to prevent the overwhelming of the NHS. You don't have to believe that, but that it is the reason that has been given. The flu is not comparable, nor is the eventual total relevant. The only thing that is relevant was the expected deaths if nothing happened. That was the data that put the fear of death into the government (literally in Boris' case it seems). The fact that they couldn't cope with a large number of people being infected at once and thus would result in otherwise healthy people being infected and dying or dying as a result of some other illness or injury because of an overwhelmed service.

Furthermore, there aren't billions of pounds being lost and wealth is not being thrown down the drain, it's simply being re-distributed. If the government wants to affect that re-distribution then it already has the power to do so. If you're losing GBP then somebody else is gaining it. If you're savings are in a foreign currency then you will be in a different boat, but that's not yer average UK punter. There is nothing in this situation that has to cause hardship, it's an economic choice to affect people with that hardship. What the government does next is up to them, or at least up to their ideology.

The UK government's agenda is what their lobbyist mates tell them it is. But they're clearing taking their lead from other countries on this one. They're locking down because that's what everyone else was/is doing. Events have overtaken them. They shat it big style and ended up in a halfway house that doesn't suit anybody. These fuckwits don't have the capacity to have an agenda on this one.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on April 06, 2020, 06:03:52 PM
Suspect we’re not getting the full story about BoJo. He’s running the country but Raab hasn’t spoken to him since Saturday!  ???

That fucking little arse-licker Jenrick showed how unfit for purpose these cunts are and shows how presidential and pathetic our political system has become. The notion that we need one man to run the nation normally is fucking ridiculous. Certainly with the current situation and when it's that permanently MIA fucktard. A proper competent human being would have said: "the PM's primary focus is on getting better. He 'hand-picked' this cabinet as he trusts etc etc. we are more than capable of holding the fort in his absence and so on". Why the fuck would the British public want some ill fucker making live decisions that require real thought, focus and understanding?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 06, 2020, 06:21:14 PM
A bit of a "weekend reporting" trend showing?

(https://i.ibb.co/fY8bLGM/Screenshot-2020-04-06-at-18-10-28.png)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 06, 2020, 07:05:16 PM
Furthermore, there aren't billions of pounds being lost and wealth is not being thrown down the drain, it's simply being re-distributed. If the government wants to affect that re-distribution then it already has the power to do so. If you're losing GBP then somebody else is gaining it.

The cost of this lockdown is undoubtedly causing billions to be lost, £2,400,000,000 per day in the UK alone according to a study today.

If we are not making things or providing services that can be sold, that's a heck of an income reduction for everyone, including the exchequer who are already borrowing/printing money to stay afloat. The economic effects of this are expected (by many qualified people who know this shit) to be the worst in all of our lifetimes.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on April 06, 2020, 08:19:10 PM
Boris in ICU now
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on April 06, 2020, 08:21:02 PM
One helluva story this.
Makes a complete joke of their press conference.

Wasn’t he out on the streets shaking hands with the public a couple of weeks ago?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on April 06, 2020, 08:45:32 PM
The cost of this lockdown is undoubtedly causing billions to be lost, £2,400,000,000 per day in the UK alone according to a study today.

If we are not making things or providing services that can be sold, that's a heck of an income reduction for everyone, including the exchequer who are already borrowing/printing money to stay afloat. The economic effects of this are expected (by many qualified people who know this shit) to be the worst in all of our lifetimes.

Lost to who though? The economic effects of this will be whatever the government chooses it to be. They could start a new green deal akin to the labour proposal in the last election (as an example) tomorrow if they chose to. They could invest, print, borrow as much or as little as they want. A depression is a choice, and who it afflicts is a choice. The qualified people talking about it are only - and only ever - talking about it within the narrow confines of the existing system and refusing to contemplate amending even slightly. Most of them are cultist fuds who talk about the markets like they're a living being. It's sudo-religious bollocks that doesn't stand up to basic scrutiny. We have a sovereign currency, and we can and should use it. Stop issuing money as debt for a start (see positive money). Use printed money to bail out the public rather than banks. Make money lose value over time (like every other source of energy) as a function of its total (the more you have the faster the rate of loss - a half life if you like) rather than gain, to force people to spend it. Recycle it back into the bottom of the system. There are so many ways to change things for the better if economists would take their heads out Adam Smith's airse for a second and understand that what they pray to is a man-made set of beliefs that can be changed whenever we like.

A massive caveat, of course: you're right, because we'll never depart from the existing, no matter how glaringly obvious it would be as a solution. Those who you talk about as qualified are not the issue, the issue is the qualification itself and when you're part of that you don't bother to look beyond it (so actually, they are the problem!). Economics is not a science despite what they'd have you believe. Have a look at Kate Raworth, Steve Keen, positive money, MMT, guy standing, the nef, dambisa moyo, even Charles Eisenstein and so on for a broader perspective of what's possible (I don't agree with all/most of them). I'd give you some of my books if I was allowed oot the hoose (fuckers).
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 06, 2020, 09:05:19 PM
One helluva story this.
Makes a complete joke of their press conference.

Wasn’t he out on the streets shaking hands with the public a couple of weeks ago?

He was positively boasting about shaking hands in a Covid hospital and talking about "taking it on the chin" when advocating the herd immunity strategy (which Hardon Handcock denied was a thing). This was all in the last month. For underestimating the virus, he's being punished heavily.

Operation Last Gasp, uttered by him 14 days ago may be his last joke and the sickest of them all. The picaninnies will be posting their condolences in the letter boxes.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 06, 2020, 09:08:57 PM
Nice speech Rico but as the people in charge have no interest in changing the system, they won't even print money to save lives. It's death to many more than the virus coming. That's reality.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 06, 2020, 09:16:15 PM
Israel outpacing Palestine by a factor of 57 to 1 currently. God indeed moves is mysterious ways. It's a variety.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 07, 2020, 01:50:53 AM
Let me tell you a story. Inspired (or more properly, reminded) by the interview on CNN just now which once again repeats that the states (and the federal government) are all outbidding each other for the same products and the suppliers are making a killing.

In the late 80's, I worked for a multinational, a US company which was one of the biggest companies in the world. Still is but a lot less bigger than they were back then, for the precise reasons I got the fuck out. They at least spent money on training and had a fabulous company supplying inspirational management training, probably at huge cost. One of the training courses was all about the art of negotiation. The exercise was that the break out group were divided into three. We were all African tribes (or some shit) and one group owned a water buffalo. We other two groups were briefed separately and our group needed to buy the water buffalo because we wanted its heart for some major religious shit but the other group needed the animal for its blood, a staple for its witch doctors and the principle ingredient in its medicine for the community.

So they let us loose to "negotiate". Predictably (in hindsight), the two of us were outbidding each other like fuck and the water buffalo owners were rubbing their hands. It was a shit fest. The wonderful lesson we all learned was the need to communicate with your enemies, not just your friends. If we had collaborated, we would've got the buffalo for the lowest price that the owners would've been tempted to sell it for, before cutting out the heart for us and giving all the blood to them. Simple stuff but a message sold so well, I remember it to this day.

In America, the supposed king of sales, marketing and negotiation, they've forgotten the basic rules. Or they're not that thick and that a further dynamic is at play there. A president who is a bullshit opportunist is fucking the dynamic. He's a total cunt.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 07, 2020, 04:04:07 PM
A bit of a "weekend reporting" trend showing?

(https://i.ibb.co/fY8bLGM/Screenshot-2020-04-06-at-18-10-28.png)

As suspected, there certainly was. 854 deaths classified today as "with" Covid-19.

The propaganda machine is back on track.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on April 07, 2020, 09:09:39 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/uk-will-be-europes-worst-hit-by-coronavirus-study-predicts

World-leading disease data analysts have projected that the UK will become the country worst hit by the coronavirus pandemic in Europe, accounting for more than 40% of total deaths across the continent.

The Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) in Seattle predicts 66,000 UK deaths from Covid-19 by August, with a peak of nearly 3,000 a day, based on a steep climb in daily deaths early in the outbreak.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LA-Don on April 07, 2020, 09:18:49 PM
Not sure how reliable the source but pretty brutal reading for UK....

USA - just over 388k confirmed cases, 12,370 dead

UK - just over 55k confirmed cases, 6159 dead

Italy - 135k, 17127 dead

Spain - 150k, 13897 dead
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: wee toon red on April 08, 2020, 10:02:49 AM
Number of cases stats are almost entirely meaningless unless testing is open to everyone. For all we know, 50m people in the UK could have it, making the number of deaths miniscule. Even the death stats themselves aren't hugely accurate.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Ten Caat on April 08, 2020, 10:24:39 AM
So a quick update on what I'm doing.

My temporary registration came through on the 28th March but I've been waiting on my Disclosure Scotland check coming through which it did yesterday. I've chosen to take a placement in a local nursing home, initial 3 month contract, extendable to 6 if necessary. This has freed up a young staff nurse only qualified a year to go and get some acute experience in the front line...she's off to the Nightingale in London. Helps her to progress her career and I don't have to travel so it suits us both. Starting on Monday.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 08, 2020, 12:18:28 PM
They're telling us that the social distancing measures ARE having an effect. This statement needs examining.

Assuming we are talking about having an effect on the transmission of the virus, I don't think it's disputable that reducing social interactions is going to reduce the possibility of spread and would obviously reduce the incidence of new infections. So as the statement is merely stating the obvious, the question is why this needs to be said?

Herd immunity went out the window because of public hysteria and the government's U-turn was explained by a change in "the science". Do they know enough about this virus yet? Have they been studying it properly? Do they have good enough data samples to rely on? They certainly don't appear to have conducted sufficient tests. They certainly haven't bothered (or are unable) to test the overwhelming majority of the heath care front line.

Either they don't know what they're doing or they are following a script and if the latter, a democracy would demand that we know what the script is. Openness and transparency they said. Sinister and/or depressing times.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on April 08, 2020, 01:14:03 PM
This is an excellent article https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-path-speci-idUSKBN21P1VF
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 08, 2020, 01:44:38 PM
This is an excellent article https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-path-speci-idUSKBN21P1VF

I read that article immediately before my last post. It doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know but it was at least a good timeline on actual events/decisions. The bigger issue is what's the plan, the agenda and the real reasons for crashing the economy beyond repair?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: donsdaft on April 08, 2020, 02:31:05 PM
So a quick update on what I'm doing.

My temporary registration came through on the 28th March but I've been waiting on my Disclosure Scotland check coming through which it did yesterday. I've chosen to take a placement in a local nursing home, initial 3 month contract, extendable to 6 if necessary. This has freed up a young staff nurse only qualified a year to go and get some acute experience in the front line...she's off to the Nightingale in London. Helps her to progress her career and I don't have to travel so it suits us both. Starting on Monday.


3 months?

The auld buggers will never last that long.

You’re either a saint or completely aff your heid.
They were just waiting to die anyway.
Harsh but true.

No way would I risk my life for a lost cause.

Well done to you and all that but bloody hell min.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 08, 2020, 05:33:41 PM
These fucking idiots in charge are absurd. The twice they've spoken of "green shoots" have been on Mondays, following the weekend figures which I've proved are exactly that, weekend figures.

Following two days of record deaths, the exponential curve is not showing any signs of slowing and whilst we know from other countries that we will start to approach a plateau at some point, probably later this month, their rhetoric bears no relation to the actual data.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on April 09, 2020, 10:10:32 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05-jbrHRmrs
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 09, 2020, 11:56:37 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05-jbrHRmrs

Brilliant. So refreshing to hear experts putting forward intelligent points of view and a savage indictment of our government, who's daily briefings (by a whole host of various smarmy arseholes) never once convince us. Interesting how the modellers are ruling the roost (rather than experts in the field) and how centralised (rather than devolved, local and regional) power is the main reason for the fuck ups. Plus the lies of course, covering up their own ineptitude.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 09, 2020, 05:31:10 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/J2WJrx0/Screenshot-2020-04-09-at-17-27-09.png)

Encouraging suggestion of exponential-slowing showing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Mentorred on April 09, 2020, 09:16:43 PM
Been a long time since I have been on, Hope your all well and staying safe.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 09, 2020, 10:07:12 PM
Been a long time since I have been on, Hope your all well and staying safe.

Mods, I hope ye tested this cunt before you allowed him back?

Don't get complacent. 80% or so are asymptomatic and much as we appreciate how vigilant you've been in protecting us - and your strategies have been adopted and implemented by the NZ government - it's important not to let up now.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on April 10, 2020, 10:34:48 AM
https://bylinetimes.com/2020/04/09/leaked-home-office-call-reveals-uk-government-wants-economy-to-continue-running-as-we-will-all-get-covid-19-anyway/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on April 10, 2020, 01:35:23 PM
Good article minijc. I'm getting slightly confused, as I wasn't under any illusions that the government's strategy was anything but that highlighted by shute in the article. Everyone gets it, but over a longer period. I didn't realise they'd adopted an alternative approach. The article suggests otherwise. I've probably just been casting my assumptions [of what this government would do] onto the government rather than listening to what they were saying.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 10, 2020, 01:57:00 PM
https://www.thearticle.com/media-questions-at-no10-briefings-are-woeful-here-are-20-they-should-ask

As Frankie Boyle said "If you've ever wondered what it would take for the British media to really take this government to task, well it's not nearly a thousand deaths a day".
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on April 10, 2020, 03:32:37 PM
Good article minijc. I'm getting slightly confused, as I wasn't under any illusions that the government's strategy was anything but that highlighted by shute in the article. Everyone gets it, but over a longer period. I didn't realise they'd adopted an alternative approach. The article suggests otherwise. I've probably just been casting my assumptions [of what this government would do] onto the government rather than listening to what they were saying.
I think and please remember I'm a moron with an over active brain that has went in at the deep end here but when they originally mentioned Herd Immunity they backtracked quickly after people worked out it would cause so many deaths then it was damage control from them, even just last week Hancock was questioned on it and he said it was never mentioned, despite the BBC having a clip of the science fud Valance mentioning it.  Some did say that even after they rejigged their strategy they were simply just dressing it up another way, it's now clear as day that they want everyone to get it despite them telling us to stay in and stick to social distancing, thing is there's no definitive proof that you can gain immunity from this virus, that from what I've read, I realise rocket/his daughter are better placed to comment but from what I've read it's just a gamble.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 10, 2020, 04:56:14 PM
I'm not better placed than those experts in the excellent video you put up yesterday but as my daughter has been saying from day one, as they were saying in the Covid Report you put up, it's not possible to know whether infected but recovered people are immune. The Spanish flu came in three waves apparently 100 years ago.

Andrew Cuomo is speaking great sense right now. Again. We have had zero sense from the UK under this Niall Fergusting and Sir Fud Unvaliant led coalition of "scientists".
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 10, 2020, 05:14:46 PM
Shocking picture still progressing.

(https://i.ibb.co/hKMkgLn/Screenshot-2020-04-10-at-17-05-45.png)

I don't care that new daily deaths are "only" one eighth (rather than a fifth or a quarter) of the previous day's total, it's a significantly increasing total every day and almost ONE THOUSAND PER DAY right now, and that's just in hospitals.

We were all divided by Leave v. Remain. England has always been divided by Labour v. Tory. The biggest division right now is those who think the government are doing a good job "in the circumstances" and those of us who see the utter and evil incompetence of this administration.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on April 10, 2020, 07:32:56 PM
For all the talk about ensuring social distancing etc is maintained and emphasising that Easter is not an excuse to fuck about, my local tesco metro seems to have relaxed its policies.

The tape on the floors and screens at the tills remain but a couple of weeks ago they had lines on the pavement marking queing positions, a 1 way entry/ exit system, staff inside and out to restrict the number of folk in the store.

Today all of the external proceedures have gone out the window. Inside the shop the rush for easter eggs also seems to take priority over the 2m rule.

Meanwhile across the Atlantic the Donald just keeps on giving. ::)

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 10, 2020, 09:57:28 PM
Meanwhile across the Atlantic the Donald just keeps on giving. ::)

His shows have been unreal. I think the fact he's been getting daily exposure without getting in golf during the weeks is the killer. He can't hide. His madness, ego and narcissism is there for all to see. The fact he has an approval rating above zero is rather disturbing however.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 10, 2020, 10:50:53 PM
We all understand why the intellectuals were despised and vilified by the masses over the centuries. They were uncomfortable mirrors, prominent reminders of the limitations and the mental incapacity of the less-enlightened. In this pandemic age, where the intellectually semi-competent and the average intelligences can see the utter stupidity of the governments in both the UK and US, I wonder what "faith" the masses cling on to? Would it be an admission of defeat to come out against the administration that they voted in? Or is it too painful to wake up to the truth that "our leaders" aren't fit to lead? Either way, the weak and stupid majority are giving licence to the weak and stupid governments to keep on keeping on, fucking up everything, failing to test, denying the front line the protection they need and most of all, lying to us each and every single day.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LA-Don on April 10, 2020, 11:59:35 PM
We all understand why the intellectuals were despised and vilified by the masses over the centuries. They were uncomfortable mirrors, prominent reminders of the limitations and the mental incapacity of the less-enlightened. In this pandemic age, where the intellectually semi-competent and the average intelligences can see the utter stupidity of the governments in both the UK and US, I wonder what "faith" the masses cling on to? Would it be an admission of defeat to come out against the administration that they voted in? Or is it too painful to wake up to the truth that "our leaders" aren't fit to lead? Either way, the weak and stupid majority are giving licence to the weak and stupid governments to keep on keeping on, fucking up everything, failing to test, denying the front line the protection they need and most of all, lying to us each and every single day.

The problem is, speaking in terms of the US, there is no glaring alternative. The democrats came up with two old grandpas, and that party is so snowflake right now that I don’t want them in power. While Trump is a total nut job, I’d take him over the snowflake party right now. They are more lunatic than him. Many republicans don’t like a Trump but do you dump him for a candidate who may lose to the Democrats?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 11, 2020, 12:12:06 AM
I understand the dilemma LA but it's not a reasonable excuse. Biden creeps me out but like the UK, it's the complete lack of credible politicians that is the systematic cultural issue. If Cuomo hadn't ruled himself out, he could've walked into office. People will vote for a humble, intelligent human being. They can come out of nowhere overnight. The system is the problem but returning cunts like Blow Job Johnson and The Donald, these are stains on decency and a savage reflection on us all.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 11, 2020, 12:18:55 AM
Ha. I just noticed that the hotel we stayed in in NYC last year are one of three hotels being offered to health care workers. Fucking brilliant. It wasn't an exceptional hotel but it was staffed with really great people. Will support this chain for ever now.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 11, 2020, 02:06:44 AM
If you add up the total UK deaths for the first quarter of the year from respiratory diseases, the figure so far for 2020 (150,057) is less than those for 2015 (160,471) 2017 (153,759) and 2018 (164,625). What's really going on here?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LA-Don on April 11, 2020, 06:36:44 AM
If you add up the total UK deaths for the first quarter of the year from respiratory diseases, the figure so far for 2020 (150,057) is less than those for 2015 (160,471) 2017 (153,759) and 2018 (164,625). What's really going on here?

I’ve asked the same question many times. I want to know how many flu deaths we are having. Pretty certain it’s more than corona...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 11, 2020, 08:35:05 AM
This is beautiful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4ZySPfYdFw

Never been into religion but always had faith in humanity to produce beautiful things and always knew the cloistered choirs were capable of doing so.

Finding this, plus reaching out to a friend last night and hearing his great optimism for the post-virus world, I'm starting to feel a sense of great change coming, for the better. Love and peace.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on April 11, 2020, 11:37:01 AM
Matt Hancock didnt quite get off scott free on his radio 4 interview this morning but as much as I don't like the guy I don't like the way the BBC are reporting what he said.

Full quote:
'I don't want to impugn blame on people who have used more PPE than the guidelines suggest because I understand the difficulties in the circumstances. What I would say it is very important to use the right PPE and not overuse it.'
I personally interpret that as 'Home-made PPE isnt safe, and as we are short of the proper stuff, be careful not to waste what you have'

BBC Tagline
'Do not overuse PPE, says UK health secretary'
If I hadn't heard the interview, or wasnt prepared to read the full transcript I'd say that could be interpreted as:
'PPE is expensive so stop being such pussies and get back to work' akin to a Charles Dickens workhouse owner.

What they should be reporting is his 'excuse' for the UK having more daily deaths than Italy & Spain ever did is that the UK has a Higher population. The interviewer then stopped him in his tracks by pointing out Germany has a higher population than the UK.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 11, 2020, 12:15:06 PM
Facts are useful. He didn't know yesterday how many NHS had died. He did know this morning.

In shirt sleeve order three weeks ago, Hancock lifted the lightest box ever into the back of a van. This was right after he said we had plenty of PPE, it was a logistical issue getting it distributed and he had got the military in to do it. Fast forward and we still have doctors, nurses and care workers (not to mention the other essential workers at high risk) without adequate protection.

He meant to say 25,000 tests per day, tripped over himself and mistakenly committed to 100,000 per day by the end of April. That's not going to happen and was therefore a deliberate lie or (in my opinion) more likely to be a bungling incompetent at work.

He denied that the UK hadn't had a herd immunity strategy, firstly on Marr and again since. The broadcasts by his boss the PM and by Sir Patrick show clearly that he was lying.

For incompetence and dishonesty, the man needs throwing under a bus, poetically being driven by a recovered patient. That the BBC would be doing the throwing, I severely doubt.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on April 11, 2020, 01:10:33 PM
However there are videos of hospital staff on Facebook with their face masks on doing the Tik Tak (?) thing. Surely a misuse of PPE.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on April 11, 2020, 02:15:15 PM
Swedish Priminister doing something I can't imagine any UK poltician in power ever doing
Admitting their government was not prepared and hasn't done enough.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 11, 2020, 03:11:12 PM
I don't know if it's legal but fucked if I care. The four of us took the dogs to the beach. We walked there, it's a beach that 99.9% of Aberdeenshire people don't know exists but we did see one family there, which we didn't get within 40 or 50 metres of, let alone 2. We passed no people on the walk to or from, only a couple of cars. Sunbathing in the garden now. If any pig in uniform had confronted me then, or decides to confront me now, they can fuck right off. The restrictions are there for a reason. We haven't been nor are we putting that reason in jeopardy. I know we are luckier than most to not be living in a city at a time like this but that's just the way it goes. I think the one hour max rule is ridiculous and as long as folk are not gathering in groups and are keeping at least 2m apart in the parks etc., that's all that is required.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on April 11, 2020, 05:13:07 PM
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-southkorea-idUSKCN21S15X
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 11, 2020, 05:13:25 PM
It's more than disingenuous to say that the UK is "in line with other countries" in the daily briefings when they put up the global death chart. The facts are that there are five countries who are clear leaders in the worst stat of all and tomorrow, the UK will join the other four in suffering more than 10,000 dead.

This assumes that the counting is being done properly and whilst it's alarming to hear that those dying in the community have yet to be included, Covid-19 hasn't always been the primary cause of death in UK hospitals including here in Scotland.

A report this week predicted that we would have the worst fatalities in Europe and if this does turn out to be true, it's not necessarily surprising at all if we end up getting the silver medal behind the runaway leaders the USA, who will trip 20,000 today. We must have the worst governments on the planet, which this pandemic is proving in the most tragic possible way.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 11, 2020, 05:21:31 PM
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-southkorea-idUSKCN21S15X

That's really worrying. Fuck sake.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on April 11, 2020, 05:27:10 PM
It's more than disingenuous to say that the UK is "in line with other countries" in the daily briefings when they put up the global death chart. The facts are that there are five countries who are clear leaders in the worst stat of all and tomorrow, the UK will join the other four in suffering more than 10,000 dead.

This assumes that the counting is being done properly and whilst it's alarming to hear that those dying in the community have yet to be included, Covid-19 hasn't always been the primary cause of death in UK hospitals including here in Scotland.

A report this week predicted that we would have the worst fatalities in Europe and if this does turn out to be true, it's not necessarily surprising at all if we end up getting the silver medal behind the runaway leaders the USA, who will trip 20,000 today. We must have the worst governments on the planet, which this pandemic is proving in the most tragic possible way.

Couldn't agree more. I think we will easily be top of the pile for deaths in Europe come the end of it all due to the inaction of our government  from the outset and still it continues. The rainbows in the windows and the clapping our NHS workers don't really do it for me when the poor folk have to do their best with not enough PPE to protect themselves. I always laugh at the daily briefings when they stand behind the podiums with Protect the NHS on them, when the bastards standing behind them having done little to protect the NHS, I hope the irony is not lost on others.

Protect the NHS, don't vote Tory.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 11, 2020, 08:09:52 PM
Priti Patel has a cold cruelty about her that's very disturbed.

Her arse being the size of a small country wouldn't help her confidence and self image but there's some severe shit going on in her head. Another human misfit in a cabinet filled with nothing but.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on April 11, 2020, 10:17:21 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/11/reveal-cost-of-35m-unusable-covid-19-tests-health-chiefs-told

Quote
Senior health officials are facing demands to reveal how much has been spent on millions of inaccurate coronavirus antibody tests, after it emerged that payments had been guaranteed even if the kits failed to work.

Public Health England is also being asked todisclose which companies the tests came from and why payment was not made contingent on the tests proving accurate. A formal request for the details is being made in a letter by Greg Clark, the former Conservative cabinet minister and chair of the Commons science and technology committee.

Britain ordered at least 3.5 million of the antibody home-testing kits, which are designed to detect whether someone has had coronavirus. The UK government talked up the potential of the tests last month, with Boris Johnson heralding them as a “game-changer” that could give individuals a “green light” to go back to work. Health chiefs said kits could be made available through Amazon and Boots once they had been proved to work. However, all the versions of the tests proved to be too inaccurate to be used.

Scientists have discovered that although the tests can show that a person has been infected with a coronavirus, they cannot adequately differentiate between the virus that is causing the current Covid-19 outbreak and other types of coronavirus –which just cause colds. They found that a range of devices all produced far too many false positives.

The Chris Grayling school of politics strikes again  ::)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 12, 2020, 03:58:07 PM
Here we go again...

(https://i.ibb.co/NxCgPWX/Screenshot-2020-04-12-at-15-53-29.png)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on April 12, 2020, 06:08:11 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/12/uk-insurers-face-legal-action-from-small-firms-over-covid-19-claims

Quote
Although several large insurers including Axa, Aviva and Allianz do not provide cover, some insurers, most notably Hiscox, sold policies before Covid-19 hit the headlines, stateing they will pay out where a business was forced to shut due to a notifiable disease.

Quote
Hiscox said: “We understand that these are incredibly difficult times for businesses affected by Covid-19. At Hiscox we strive to pay claims that are covered by the policies fairly and quickly.

“However, general business interruption policies across the industry, including Hiscox’s, were not designed to cover these extraordinary circumstances. Like terrorism and flood, which have government-backed insurance schemes, pandemics like coronavirus are simply too large and too systemic for private insurers to cover,” it added.

This will be interesting and maybe (should we actually survive this virus malarky) could lead to a serious overhaul of the Insurance industry which I reckon has been a long time coming.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 13, 2020, 09:47:19 AM
In my opinion, Aiatair Campbell has been the best voice on Twitter over the last week.

Frankie Boyle has nailed it of course, Piers Morgan gets too excited in his attempts to "hold the government to account" and whilst there are millions of us out there who see the utter evil incompetence of the "leadership", the measured and structured intelligent observations and criticisms that the old Labour spin doctor delivers are second to none.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 13, 2020, 03:13:27 PM
Although I am starting to wonder if Peter Hitchens has been right all along.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Jute on April 13, 2020, 04:56:07 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/12/uk-insurers-face-legal-action-from-small-firms-over-covid-19-claims

This will be interesting and maybe (should we actually survive this virus malarky) could lead to a serious overhaul of the Insurance industry which I reckon has been a long time coming.

Hiscox are not an insurer I deal with much so don’t know how their policy is worded but in general most of the business interruption covers that do have an infectious diseases extension to their wordings (a lot don’t) are pretty limited in what diseases they would cover (Allianz policy specifically excludes SARS Coronavirus which the current virus is related too for example) and the circumstances under which they will respond. Even those that have a wide enough wording to respond usually require there to be an outbreak at the premises and will be sub limited with a short indemnity period. Can see there being some very lengthy legal battles over this.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 13, 2020, 07:09:58 PM
Channel 4 News once again picking up the baton that none of the MSM are interested in, nailing the Care Home issue. And well done Scotland for being logical in its counting, as well as being humane, open and transparent. I swear DimWhitty was making it up on the hoof in today's briefing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Madbadteacher on April 13, 2020, 11:12:18 PM
Trump’s news conference on now, basically rewriting the past and backpedaling.
Then goes to a series of tv clips from the news, edited to show how “wrong they were, how right I am”.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 13, 2020, 11:30:41 PM
Trump’s news conference on now, basically rewriting the past and backpedaling.
Then goes to a series of tv clips from the news, edited to show how “wrong they were, how right I am”.

The most defining moment in world history, live right now.

Never have we ever seen a madman have this big a major meltdown.

Just incredible.

Edit: A bit of an overreaction last night whilst jaw agape. It will be the most defining moment in Trump's demise, or at least it should be but you never know with Amerikhuns, the stupidest race on planet earth but not the most defining in "world history".

The men in white coats should come and wheech him off the stand tonight. That would be apt, and then televise the arrest, his plaintiff pleas and the interviews with him, all without him knowing that it's being filmed. That way, even the last remnants of his supporters will understand why he had to go, as well as giving the rest of us a reet good laff.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on April 14, 2020, 12:09:30 PM
The most defining moment in world history, live right now.

Never have we ever seen a madman have this big a major meltdown.

Just incredible.
Incredible, the propaganda video was on another level, something you'd expect from North Korea.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on April 14, 2020, 11:44:31 PM
its tonights more bonkers?

Time will tell
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: manc_don on April 15, 2020, 03:06:23 AM
Apparently the yanks approval rating for drumpf is increasing  ::)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Jute on April 15, 2020, 06:39:14 AM
Trump has announced he is suspending funding the WHO as he carries out an investigation into their serious mishandling of the COVID 19 outbreak. Also accusing them of a cover up of how serious the virus was when outbreak started in conjunction with Chinese Government. Clearly attempting to shift the blame already.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: manc_don on April 15, 2020, 09:08:43 AM
Trump has announced he is suspending funding the WHO as he carries out an investigation into their serious mishandling of the COVID 19 outbreak. Also accusing them of a cover up of how serious the virus was when outbreak started in conjunction with Chinese Government. Clearly attempting to shift the blame already.

Happen to watch most of his press conferences at the mo, and yesterday's was hilarious. Couldn't handle getting proper questions from the journalists. It's either a corporate bum fest or deflection of hunnish proportions. Sooner he get's dealt the sharp end of karma, the better.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on April 15, 2020, 08:19:45 PM
episode 2 from those scientists I posted last week https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY3sEIB7pJY
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 15, 2020, 09:08:08 PM
episode 2 from those scientists I posted last week https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY3sEIB7pJY

Brilliant again and so refreshing to hear intelligence for a change, the government providing none.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: 360 on April 16, 2020, 03:59:34 PM
How is everyone finding working from home?

I quite enjoy it. As long as I have plenty of alcohol for the weekends, all is good.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BigAl on April 16, 2020, 04:13:45 PM
How is everyone finding working from home?

I quite enjoy it. As long as I have plenty of alcohol for the weekends, all is good.

Have worked from home for around fifteen years now.
Worked for a Dutch multi national company until 2014 before semi retiring and then starting up on my own.
Personally speaking I couldn't possibly go back to going into a workplace day after day again.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 16, 2020, 06:30:47 PM
I'm quite liking the fact that there's less stress and more time to do things. I'm missing the social side of life but saving money by not eating out or going to the pub. Then again, I've not had any income for a month as it was like a tap getting switched off but fortunately I don't have huge fixed costs, neither business nor personal and had a few quid in the bank. We could live off my wife's monthly NHS pay for the first time for decades so we appreciate that we are luckier than most but the economic impacts will be horrendous for many. Overall it's a big negative and I find the most depressing aspect of it all is twofold; the utter incompetence of the Westminster government and the sheer stupidity of the people, as evidenced not just by the fact they voted these cunts in but how many dithering fuckwits and little Hitlers there are amongst the customers in the supermarkets, plus some of the arsehole keyboard warriors on Twitter.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Madbadteacher on April 16, 2020, 08:16:23 PM
I’m no 😡
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Elgindon on April 16, 2020, 09:20:12 PM
 Managed to break my ankle on the last day before lockdown,so,as far as recuperation goes,couldnt have picked a better time I suppose.
   Now that I'm more mobile,luckily been great weather for outside painting fences/sheds and planting veg etc.Would have been up the wall by now otherwise.

   Personally dont envy the politicians dealing with something as unprecedented,situations and knowledge of the virus changing all the time,and deciding whats for the best after lockdown??
   Hitchens might not be far off the mark  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QqKEvN-6F0k

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on April 16, 2020, 10:05:20 PM
I struggled to get over how much he sounded like Jacob Reece Mogg and I take his opinions with a pinch of salt (and that is partly my left leaning bias kicking in) however a thought occured early on when he mentioned how hospital use is now mainly intensive care. There have been other reports of how visits to A&E are down as people don't want to go near the hospital for various reasons - dont want to risk catchin cov 19, don't want to be seen as a burden etc. I presume the same has happened in outpatients being refered by GPs.

Is there some little beancouter prick(s) in the Tory government busy collating these stats to then justify cutting more services & NHS funding as its been shown these parts are 'under-used'?

A similar tactic (as I see it) was blatantly used at my Uni to cut available studio space by surveying how busy those studios were at a time when the students were in Lectures or on extra curricular activities.

People can say they wouldnt have the balls to do that but I follow the 'leopard never changes its spots' logic
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 17, 2020, 02:11:30 AM
I've been following Hitchens arguments for a while and heard both that interview on Monday and the one the week before. He's asking if the lockdown is proportionate given the devastating effect to not just the economy but the healthy old, to people who's other surgeries have been cancelled etc. etc. He's an intelligent man and after he was accused of having a humility-bypass and it being pointed out that his absolute certainty was "ugly" (as he is not an expert in the field), his arguments have been stronger.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LA-Don on April 17, 2020, 06:45:53 AM
How is everyone finding working from home?

I quite enjoy it. As long as I have plenty of alcohol for the weekends, all is good.

Fucking nightmare. Two working parents and 3 and 1 year old boys, I work before they get up and once they go to bed, the rest of the day is being dad while stressing about the work I should be doing. Long fucking day and I’m exhausted!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on April 17, 2020, 07:36:54 AM
How is everyone finding working from home?

I quite enjoy it. As long as I have plenty of alcohol for the weekends, all is good.

I think you just adapt the best you can. I'm sort of getting used to it and it has been a wake up call for my works IT department who were really caught out with this as our systems were crap and they found out how bad they were once this kicked off, so been a few changes to how we access things, which so far seem good.

I try and stick to my usual daily routine, get up the same time and finish around the same time, some I work with think I am mad for doing this, but I find it helps. Some seems to have their laptops on 24/7, but log on for periods throughout the day, I suppose whatever works and no right or wrong way.

It is funny if in conference with people in the same position and their kids wander in asking kid questions when Mummy or Daddy are in a call or the dog suddenly starts barking its head off, or people forget to mute their mic when having conversations at home.  :D

I think working from home will become a new norm for many after this is all over.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on April 17, 2020, 09:57:08 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/michaelsavage/status/1250872365791219713?s=08

“Remember the 3.5m antibody tests that didn’t work? Last week I reported that the UK paid *up front*.

Now,
@ddknyt
 and
@jane__bradley
 reveal the whole saga.

U.K. Paid $20 Million for New Coronavirus Tests. They Didn’t Work.”
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on April 17, 2020, 11:48:28 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/michaelsavage/status/1250872365791219713?s=08

“Remember the 3.5m antibody tests that didn’t work? Last week I reported that the UK paid *up front*.

Now,
@ddknyt
 and
@jane__bradley
 reveal the whole saga.

U.K. Paid $20 Million for New Coronavirus Tests. They Didn’t Work.”

Note the comment below that tweet
Quote
There’s plenty to criticise but in the context of the amount of money being spent by the Government, a $20 million punt on something that would have been hugely beneficial if it had worked is nothing to be ashamed of.

When I first heard about this story I knew there would be people who would adopt that logic.
I imagine people are one of the reasons spam emails from 'African Princes' who are apparently desperate to give away millions of pounds continue to flood in.

If the other European nations are Dunfermline, Dundee united, & Dundee, then Boris & Co are Hearts when Romanov came sniffing about
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on April 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
It's all good and well knowing that you've got the antibodies but in the grand scheme it means fuck all, there's no proof of immunity, more and more people are testing positive for a second time, the government and their backers are just trying to force it so they can start the country up again.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 17, 2020, 02:43:26 PM
That hadn't occurred to me (tonight, over the mass gatherings) but I fear you're right.

I wouldn't rule out incompetence too however. The urging of U.K. manufacturers to turn their production lines to building respirators was desperate stupidity and the "no number is too high" was a line that no businessman (or indeed anyone with a mild understanding of economics) would ever utter. I don't think he's got the brain to think through what he was saying. He may have been trying to peddle the lie that saving the people is their number one priority but it was an invitation to rape for any entrepreneur with a sniff of opportunism in his nostrils.

If it's true that we paid up front for tests that didn't work - and I can strongly believe that this inept government did - then it defies the basics of business, negotiation and common sense, even with the increased global demand. There is no limit to their stupidity. Unsurprisingly given that none of them are of, nor have never been part of the real world.

This is how a brazen street smart cunt does it: -

https://www.businessinsider.com/fema-paid-bankrupt-company-no-employees-55-million-n95-masks-2020-4
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on April 17, 2020, 07:11:19 PM
Out a macabre interest it will be interesting to see if the Donald starts the 2nd American civil war
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on April 18, 2020, 12:22:51 AM
The Donald is on fire tonight

'Over prepared' for the pandemic apparently as if he bought pizza for 50 people but only 3 showed up.

Current US stats

1 person in 466 has/had the virus (that they supposedly know of)
1 person in every 19 who catches it is dying
1 person in every 8,945 US Citizens is currently dying of the virus
and it is still rising

Compare that the the UK (allegedly)
1 person in 624 has/had the virus (that they supposedly know of)
1 person in every 7 who catches it is dying
1 person in every 4,652 UK Citizens is currently dying of the virus
and it is still rising

Compare that to Italy which has had it longer but is now apparently getting on top of things
1 person in every 351 has/had the virus
1 person in every 7 who catches it is dying
1 person in 2659 Italian citizens is dying of the virus

Then there is the Germans
1 person in every 592 has/had the virus
1 person in every 32 who catches it is dying
1 person in 19239 German citizens is dying of the virus


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 18, 2020, 01:26:32 AM
Very interesting way to look at the stats TW.

What I take from it is that Germany's greater testing rate is identifying those in the community for which being Covid-19 positive is not a big deal, which will be the same in every country of course if we had tested widely instead of mostly those who turn up at hospitals.

What needs to be done is to understand what they (and others) did so well that we, Italy, Spain, France and the US got so wrong.

For me the third question tonight was a fuck up and an opportunity lost. After the first two questions focused on the Liberate tweets and the protests that ensued, the media HAD TO stay on it and I'm sure he would've cracked. Changing the subject completely let him off the hook. Loved Cuomo today. He's a voice of reason and Trump has picked a really bad fight there. The NY governor is keeping his powder dry for now but he's going to crucify the fake POTUS one day soon.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 18, 2020, 01:40:52 AM
This pressure on China following Trump's attack on the WHO is bearing fruit. Their figures didn't ring true before and unless they genuinely are experiencing a second wave worse than anyone could've imagined, yesterday, in one day only, we can't believe fuck all from them. The genius Ai Wei Wei was on Peston this week. Love that man.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on April 19, 2020, 07:50:19 AM
Full Times story (without paywall) that’s doing the rounds:

https://archive.is/20200418182037/https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-38-days-when-britain-sleepwalked-into-disaster-hq3b9tlgh

Also see Owen Jones on Twitter for the highlights.

Looks like leaks from inside government so a scapegoat must be getting prepared.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 19, 2020, 09:10:31 AM
I bought the Sunday Times today for possibly the first time this century, having been a regular for a long time. Would've bought it when the Cummings story broke but it had sold out. How is it possible to escape the online paywall?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on April 19, 2020, 10:31:35 AM
main two rumours on twitter is that they want either Gove or Patel to take over from him, the ERG have held a meeting and 31 of the 51 there voted for Patel, Gove has Murdoch as his main backer, probably all shit but Boris has to be done here as should Hancock and that fruit that done the briefing yesterday.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on April 19, 2020, 12:28:17 PM
I'll stick this here although it only touches briefly on the virus and what it could mean going forward to some WILD stuff in this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK_sYnIAlq8
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on April 19, 2020, 02:09:00 PM
I do think Gove is preparing to shove BoJo under a bus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 19, 2020, 02:33:17 PM
This was him in 2017: -


Disgusting to hear him refer to his Aberdonian roots today, twice on Marr.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: manc_don on April 20, 2020, 10:04:34 AM
Pm here announced that we’re going to be going down from full lockdown to something closer to that of the uk. The right here have been pathetically embarrassing. A few of them getting it wouldn’t go amiss. Truly, a lot of them have sad , fat middle aged man syndrome.

Anyway. Well still all be wfh, albeit I’ve been furloughed without the guarantee of a job at the end of it. Really need to hope clients regain their confidence in construction. It’s shite timing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on April 20, 2020, 10:22:42 AM
Anyway. Well still all be wfh, albeit I’ve been furloughed without the guarantee of a job at the end of it. Really need to hope clients regain their confidence in construction. It’s shite timing.

Isnt the construction industry great!  :tumbleweed:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on April 20, 2020, 12:57:54 PM
I hope Im wrong (especially as it will directly affect me) but I won't be surprised if by the end of next week there are newspaper reports stating only about 10% of businesses applying for the furlough scheme being approved same as the small business loan shitshow.

Much like Universal credit I suspect the Tory attitude is the majority of people applying are trying to cheat the system so they will make it as hard as possible to get it, and if you do get it they will be looking for the smallest opportunity to take it back.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on April 21, 2020, 09:40:50 AM
I'll leave this one in here, despite being appropriate in the truth thread too:

https://skwawkbox.org/2020/04/21/biggest-political-scandal-since-cambridge-analytica-about-to-break-as-fake-nhs-accounts-set-up-by-dept-of-health/ (https://skwawkbox.org/2020/04/21/biggest-political-scandal-since-cambridge-analytica-about-to-break-as-fake-nhs-accounts-set-up-by-dept-of-health/)

Fuckers
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 21, 2020, 12:40:57 PM
I'll leave this one in here, despite being appropriate in the truth thread too:

https://skwawkbox.org/2020/04/21/biggest-political-scandal-since-cambridge-analytica-about-to-break-as-fake-nhs-accounts-set-up-by-dept-of-health/ (https://skwawkbox.org/2020/04/21/biggest-political-scandal-since-cambridge-analytica-about-to-break-as-fake-nhs-accounts-set-up-by-dept-of-health/)

Fuckers

Saw that one last night and whilst it wouldn't surprise me and would totally be in keeping with the psychopathic Cummings and cabinet, we need to guard against it being fact. I would guess it is true and would offer 33/1 or longer for it not being true but this is where we can expect independent free journalism to kick in. We won't hold our breath for Kuntsberg or Peston picking it up. The mainstream media are a sham in this country. Even Rupert crucifying Boris on Sunday was an act of political agenda and slut-like, following and reacting to social media rather than leading and exposing anything we didn't know.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 21, 2020, 12:44:57 PM

POTUS45 is having bigger and better meltdowns at the daily briefings. Compulsive viewing and tragically comical often. Greek masks.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 21, 2020, 01:08:12 PM
Here's a speculation;

Covid-19 is slowing in Europe because of warmer weather more than the lockdown, which some countries don't have anyway.

Evidence? Don't have any. Call it a hunch. But the percentage increases right across Europe are dwindling daily.

The UK will have a spike today in reported deaths due to our usual Sunday Monday weekend reporting syndrome and at some point need to include the non-hospital deaths in England which will be a HUGE spike. What sort of civilisation doesn't count them all? How big is their incompetence that they couldn't put in place a system to count properly? So much for protecting the most vulnerable. Care home workers still don't have PPE.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: donsdaft on April 21, 2020, 07:08:36 PM
I'm not sure whether they fall for it every week or that they expect us to fall for it every week.

I'm also not sure which one would be worse.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 21, 2020, 07:59:35 PM
The biggest problem in the UK government's utter incompetence is a lack of diversity.

In Rebel Ideas, Matthew Syed writes that if you have a management culture full of the same demographics with the same backgrounds, educations and experiences, you are less able to adapt and change.

Within these public school Oxbridge cabinet wankers, there is zero diversity. They are clones. In a crisis, they are particularly unable to make good decisions because they are not prepared (or indeed able) to think outside their narrow frames of reference.

The Edinburgh wifie on Channel 4 News articulated the relationship between science and government. When we have wankers like Whitty and Vallance coming from the same pods as the arsehole politicians, they are totally fucked. That van Tamm cunt is just as bad as all the rest of the arrogant pricks.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on April 22, 2020, 10:28:34 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN0K0dgLwYE

Episode 3
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 22, 2020, 01:37:56 PM
Episode 3

The least interesting of the three but still a worthwhile exercise. Mason's stalling and stuttering is really annoying and quite unforgivable given the role of the chair.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 22, 2020, 01:44:20 PM
PMQ's today confirms that I'm all Tory-ed out. Just can't listen to Raab and Hancock any more. They're fucking disgusting specimens. I understand why some US news channels are no longer broadcasting Trump's daily briefings. There's a limit to how much bullshit one can take. I've watched my last Downing Street briefing now. Will get any "highlights" from Twitter anyway.

Starmer unimpressive for me. This was the perfect opportunity to stick the knife in and demand change and action and he wasn't up to the task. Another total wanker.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 22, 2020, 04:10:29 PM
And yet the Chief Scientific Advisor Patrick Vallance has said much the same thing.
What’s wrong with a bit of positivity? We don’t appear to be matching the trend of Italy anymore.

What's wrong "with a bit of positivity" is that when it is baseless spin, it is a lie. Over 92% of the reported deaths have occurred since then and given the horror that we will eventually get out of their impending admission re deaths in the community and the care homes, it's going to be a whole lot worse.

(https://i.ibb.co/mNcwF00/Screenshot-2020-04-22-at-15-52-23.png)

When they were speaking about green shoots of recovery, as they have at least twice, they were hoping they were going to be right. When Hancock promised 100,000 tests per day, he was hoping he was going to be right. When Jenrick said that a plane would arrive from Turkey on Sunday, he was hoping to be right.

You either smell shite or you don't. We are going to be WAY worse than Italy by next month, if we aren't already given their "creative accounting" and their inhumane counting incompetence.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: bearsdenred on April 23, 2020, 11:37:28 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab


   Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
   https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab

   The coronavirus pandemic has already caused as many as 41,000 deaths in the UK, according to a Financial Times analysis of the latest data from the Office for National Statistics.

The estimate is more than double the official figure of 17,337 released by ministers on Tuesday, which is updated daily and only counts those who have died in hospitals after testing positive for the virus.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: donsdaft on April 24, 2020, 08:27:45 AM
My wife is diabetic.
I’m going to see if she’ll let me have one of her syringes, I know we have bleach somewhere.
Sorted, what’s the fuss been all about?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on April 24, 2020, 10:17:58 AM
My wife is diabetic.
I’m going to see if she’ll let me have one of her syringes, I know we have bleach somewhere.
Sorted, what’s the fuss been all about?
That was quite something else last night, the side cam showing the female doctors reaction as the oaf just spouted that is like watching someone watch a car crash unfold.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on April 24, 2020, 12:27:27 PM
Im pretty sure there is a film or perhaps an episode of Criminal minds where the serial Killers preferred method is injecting bleach and other household cleaners into his victims.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 24, 2020, 01:55:35 PM
Hydroxychloroquine was bad enough but last night was stunning. As I said, the man is clinically insane. His narcissism leads him to believe that he knows better than the doctors. He's the ultimate Dunning-Kruger in a country full of them. Politics can't get worse than this and the rest of the world (Boris excluded) are going to rape him. Joe Biden isn't electable either, another horrible old thick fuck with inappropriate touchy feely shit going on.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: bearsdenred on April 24, 2020, 04:21:40 PM
Hydroxychloroquine was bad enough but last night was stunning. As I said, the man is clinically insane. His narcissism leads him to believe that he knows better than the doctors. He's the ultimate Dunning-Kruger in a country full of them. Politics can't get worse than this and the rest of the world (Boris excluded) are going to rape him. Joe Biden isn't electable either, another horrible old thick fuck with inappropriate touchy feely shit going on.

the worrying thing is, half of his supporters are the red-neck thick fuckers that will believe him and drink and take this shite.

So in the weeks to come watch the deaths in the USA for non-gun shot, non-corona virus to sky rocket as Darwin theory is proved correct
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on April 24, 2020, 04:34:29 PM
Surely there must be someone in America and I mean it in legal terms, that can shut up Trump?

Even being President, there must be something in place to stop him spouting the pure pish that he spouts, especially when people could be in real danger if they follow his advice.








Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on April 24, 2020, 06:36:11 PM
https://youtu.be/TkU1ob_lHCw
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 24, 2020, 10:07:28 PM
the worrying thing is, half of his supporters are the red-neck thick fuckers that will believe him and drink and take this shite.

It's really not worrying at all. I agree that his unintended consequence will be death to some (mostly his supporters) just like the guy in Arizona who unintentionally killed himself the day after Trump went big on Hydroxychloroquine. But it's really not a worry. Anyone who unilaterally acts on his advice and dies, that is a really great thing for humanity. The world could do with less terminally stupid fucks.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 25, 2020, 01:14:10 PM
As today will represent a grim milestone of 200,000 dead, it's a strange set of figures. The UK will become the fifth country to join the 20,000 club - and undoubtedly is already in an unassailable silver medal position once the inept government admit the true extent and include the care home and community deaths - and yet sixth in the table isn't close to 10,000, with Belgium odds on favourites to hit that number first, possibly some time in May.

Given that we can't trust the figures coming out of China (and possibly other countries), I find it odd that the fatalities per country rates are so all over the place. Pretty sure the virus has the same effect on humans irrespective of nationalities.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on April 25, 2020, 04:30:59 PM
obesity could be a factor, both here and the USA have high rates of obese people, then you've got a couple of places that have a very old population, like Italy for example.  Do feel that we were 3 weeks behind and acted so slow, originally they wanted it spread far and wide that's why Cheltenham never got binned, easiest way to spread the virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on April 26, 2020, 03:36:53 PM
What I don't understand is why we weren't all involved in this shite for years? Given pandemics are predictable (in that we know that they'll happen, but not when) why were the public not trusted to discuss, understand and plan for this in advance? Like a massive fire drill or nuclear strike preparedness exercise. The lockdown was a known possibility from pandemic exercises and certainly from looking at lessons learned after SARS, so why has it been such a surprise? Why didn't we know what to do (any of us)? It seems we've been lucky it wasn't a big killer like the plague or one of the bird or swine flu (can't remember which) up at 30% fatality.

I'm just finishing the precipice by Tony Orr just now. A very good read, and timely release. It compares humanity to an adolescent, unable to discuss the big items that face us and the future. It's very prescient. I think that's it too. A handful of "important" folk in a room making plans without needing the input, discussion and assistance of the plebs. Or could it be that we might question the resilience of our needs at the local level?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on April 26, 2020, 04:28:20 PM
What I don't understand is why we weren't all involved in this shite for years? Given pandemics are predictable (in that we know that they'll happen, but not when) why were the public not trusted to discuss, understand and plan for this in advance? Like a massive fire drill or nuclear strike preparedness exercise. The lockdown was a known possibility from pandemic exercises and certainly from looking at lessons learned after SARS, so why has it been such a surprise? Why didn't we know what to do (any of us)? It seems we've been lucky it wasn't a big killer like the plague or one of the bird or swine flu (can't remember which) up at 30% fatality.

I'm just finishing the precipice by Tony Orr just now. A very good read, and timely release. It compares humanity to an adolescent, unable to discuss the big items that face us and the future. It's very prescient. I think that's it too. A handful of "important" folk in a room making plans without needing the input, discussion and assistance of the plebs. Or could it be that we might question the resilience of our needs at the local level?

Thing that springs to mind immediately is 'short termism'
The curse of what seems to be all current political thinking around the world is 'Only do/ work on things which can be achieved in the 4-5 years we definetly have power. Anything long term which will be good but causes a bit of stress to the public without a seemingly quick positive return will be used by the opposition against us and will probably be cancelled if we lose control.

A very simplistic form of this is the test some scientists/ pychologists did on kids which involved sitting them at a table and placing one sweet in front of them.
The kids were told that if they didn't touch the sweet for 15mins they would get another sweet and could then eat both. I understand the majority if not all of the kids in the tests ate the single sweet immediately. The instant return was seen as better than the better long term gain.

Another example is the hundreds of fad diets and exercise equipment that will supposedly make you lose 3 stone or have you looking like an olympic swimmer in a week.

Alternatively there is the logic of governments that the more the people know the less likely they are to vote for you so keep them as dumb/ in the dark as possible.
10 years ago the UK was shut down due to heavy snow and then we discovered most of the snowplows etc had been sold off as there hadn't been any heavy snow for years and the chances of it happening were supposedly small therefore it was seen as an easy 'saving' / boost to the coffers.

We also live in a world where everyone wants everything but resents the fact we have to pay for it.
Tell the UK population an additional 1p on the pound tax was being introduced to make sure the country was prepared for a pandemic which may or may not happen and come election day that government would be kicked out in a landslide.
Suggesting raising taxes is seen as political suicide but even if a government was voted in on a socialist high tax model (like scandinavia) I wouldnt be surprised if the fuckwits who go into politics now would find a way to waste/ lose the extra funding.
If by some miracle the extra money was wisely spent it would take decades for the real changes to be seen and all the while the opposition parties would be accusing the government of picking the pocket of 'hard working families'. After all why should you pay for stuff you dont actively use all the time when you could be spending your money on a new TV or Sofa every year etc etc?  :hammer:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on April 27, 2020, 03:04:20 PM
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/phil-rosenthal-they-stand-behind-president/610735/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on April 28, 2020, 09:02:23 AM
?s=20
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: donsdaft on April 28, 2020, 10:35:23 AM
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR2RSsOMsu6XxMiOJ1WHNcSfC2TCYYrj4a0bUMdJW3VUXwSrj3WSNSCxY0Q


Looks like I'm 10 times more likely to die of the virus here than I would have been in Hungary.

If they'd warned me that I was going to have to close the shop then I would have stayed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 28, 2020, 02:00:08 PM
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR2RSsOMsu6XxMiOJ1WHNcSfC2TCYYrj4a0bUMdJW3VUXwSrj3WSNSCxY0Q


Looks like I'm 10 times more likely to die of the virus here than I would have been in Hungary.

If they'd warned me that I was going to have to close the shop then I would have stayed.

It will be considerably more than 10 times once the UK government stop ignoring the true extent.

What I'm finding is a rage towards Tory voters. We already knew what BlowJob was like. He was sacked twice for dishonesty and fired from the foreign office for incompetence, the worst incumbent of that office ever. The picaninnies would not have been queuing up at the letterboxes to send their condolences if he had kicked the bucket. Neither would his children, estranged to the point of zero contact. The fact that he procured public money for his whore Arcuri seems to have been forgotten about but we all knew what he was like.

It's therefore no surprise that his cabinet is full of similar incompetents and that his party is also bursting with similar arselicking sycophants. What is unforgivable is that Raab (in the headlights) and Atkins today had no knowledge of Cygnus. What is also unforgivable is what Panorama exposed last night, not that it wasn't already news to any keen observer. John Ashton was marginalised and vilified on Question Time six weeks ago and yet he has been speaking the truth for THREE MONTHS and is still speaking it.

https://www.doubledown.news/watch/2020/20/april/our-most-explosive-interview-yet-with-professor-john-ashton-who-called-it-right-on-coronavirus-from-very-start
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on April 28, 2020, 08:42:54 PM
I thought Panorama was quite good. Just hope some of the happy clappers watched it.
Hancock got a bit arsey about it at today’s Q&A so it obviously hit a nerve.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on April 29, 2020, 08:55:42 PM
Good, long read:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/29/revealed-the-inside-story-of-uk-covid-19-coronavirus-crisis
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on April 29, 2020, 10:43:30 PM
Nothing is not-knowable when it comes to the daily response from the regimes in the US and UK. The only thing that may be able to be disputed is whether their actions have been good, bad or incompetent. In my view, there's zero debate to be had about that either.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: 360 on April 30, 2020, 03:38:54 PM
My granny died of the virus on Sunday morning.

Just heard the arrangements for the funeral are that she will be put straight into a closed casket in the hospital gown she died in. Then driven straight to the crematorium with one car allowed to follow, and that's it. Won't be buried until the government says it's all okay.

Pretty brutal but I understand that it's better for the bigger picture.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on April 30, 2020, 11:30:12 PM
In terms of mortality the UK is now the second worst in the world based on reported stats

1 in 6 people who have reportedly caught the virus have died.
Spain and Italy may have higher number of cases but their mortality rates are  1 in 10, and 1 in 7 respectively.

Only country which is worse is Belgium but that is only fractionally and will probably have changed by tomorrow.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 01, 2020, 02:38:08 AM
In terms of mortality the UK is now the second worst in the world based on reported stats

1 in 6 people who have reportedly caught the virus have died.
Spain and Italy may have higher number of cases but their mortality rates are  1 in 10, and 1 in 7 respectively.

Only country which is worse is Belgium but that is only fractionally and will probably have changed by tomorrow.

You're looking at deaths as a proportion of reported cases.

The mortality you quote is a proportion of those who have tested positive.

In that stat, the number of cases drives the mortality rate rather than the population.

The number of tests determines the number to have been found positive.

The UK are behind many other countries in terms of testing.

We are fourth worst in the world in terms of real mortality currently, and this assumes all countries are reporting the same way, which we're not. Even here, England are VASTLY underreporting the deaths in care homes and the community so fuck knows what the true position is. The only certainty is that it's bad and that the "apparent success" that BlowJob spoke about on Monday was spin and bollocks.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: donsdaft on May 01, 2020, 06:12:07 PM
100,000 tests a day.

They're not even bothering to try to make their lies believable now.

If Scotland doesn't dump England now, they never will.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 01, 2020, 06:54:15 PM
100,000 tests a day.

They're not even bothering to try to make their lies believable now.

If Scotland doesn't dump England now, they never will.

Aye it's incredible, literally. 42,000 test kits were posted out yesterday to get included in that figure. Weasels. They are a bunch of weaseley arse-bandits, having been interfered with during puberty at their public schools*.

* Can't find the data for that een. Must've misplaced or lost it. Call it a hunch then.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on May 01, 2020, 08:38:36 PM
Aye, I seen that pop up just before 5 and knew right away it was a bit of bullshit, on a par with being past the peak yesterday, when the day before we weren't.

The scary thing about it all is that nobody, or at least people in the right position to do so, is doing anything to highlight the lies coming from Government which has resulted in deaths of people.

Makes you sick to the stomach to think people are lapping their lies up day after day and think they have done a great job.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on May 02, 2020, 01:15:31 PM
Some of the test kits sent out didn't have a return label with it and when those that had received those called the helpline they were told just to bin them and they'll have another sent out, absolute shambles.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on May 02, 2020, 01:38:25 PM
Some of the test kits sent out didn't have a return label with it and when those that had received those called the helpline they were told just to bin them and they'll have another sent out, absolute shambles.

Well thats Monday's 100,000 sorted then
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 02, 2020, 02:52:12 PM
The most galling thing about this is money.

It would've cost five figures to send out kits which were effectively useless, having been rushed out to meet a self-imposed target that they didn't need to say. It's going to cost another @£50k to re-send them, or probably much more than that as that's at just over £1 per test including postage, personnel, logistics etc.

What civil servant thinks it's ok to burn a fiver of our money, let alone 5 or 6 figures? Let alone 6,000,000 on an unnecessary letter to households? Let alone hundreds of millions on data systems that don't work? Let alone billions to quangos, big pharma, "friendly" corporates, bailing out the corrupt banks etc. etc.?

All for vanity and lying and pissing money away in the process.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 02, 2020, 02:55:18 PM
There are 47 or 48 countries in the world who have tested a bigger proportion of their populations than the UK, even including the lies.

This proves that others value data more than we do. Our government has been reacting the whole time and is playing catch up at every turn. The biggest U-turn (on lockdown) was forced by public opinion and Scotland going first and the EPL shutting down Arsenal v. Man C and numerous other acts to reduce social interaction.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 05, 2020, 05:38:19 PM
As the UK becomes the second worst death count in the world and will break through the 30,000 official deaths barrier tomorrow, the tragic truth is that there are STILL many more deaths from the community and nursing homes and care homes yet to be counted.

The fucking tone of these cabinet clowns is unbelievable. Our "apparent success" BlowJob said last week.

They think we are all going to download their App? No fucking chance.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on May 05, 2020, 09:08:41 PM
It would appear from the tone of the governments scientists that they now realise they have been getting set up for the fall, Vallance today explaining that the government are 'informed by the science not led by it'.  Also one of the female medical officers was saying that it was to do with money (no shit) as to why the country didn't shut down earlier.

As for that app, glad that a lot of people have shunned it as it's no more than glorified spyware.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: donsdaft on May 05, 2020, 10:23:42 PM
I’ll just continue to sing my song.


🎵His name is Sir Boris 
    The King of the world
    He likes hunting and shooting and fishing
    But when there is any work to be done
    You’ll find that he’s generally missing. 🎵                             
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: manc_don on May 06, 2020, 01:34:47 AM
What a shite state of affairs. I wish i could see something positive coming out of this negligence in the UK, but can't see anyone (who should be) being held to account.

We're gradually moving down our levels, hoping to go down to level 2 next week.  What this has shown is that National (tories over here) are self righteous cunts and hopefully will get an absolute arse battering in the up coming election.  Barring any stupidity from the coalition, this should be fine.  The tories wanted us to put economy first. Completely forgetting that without people, you don't have an economy.

Anyway, we're now talking of opening a Trans-tasman bubble (hi Scotfree  :wave:) but it'll be interesting to see how this will work. Aussie are still getting new cases, so I doubt it'll be any time soon, but they were talking of treating it as a "domestic" route. Aussies finally becoming part of NZ  :rofl:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on May 06, 2020, 12:25:49 PM
200,000 tests a day by the end of May now.

At the risk of being cynical this really is a primary school playground.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 06, 2020, 01:05:01 PM
Aye they just open their mouths and shit pours out. Every time. Boris was appallingly inept at PMQ's, which was no surprise given his empty soul and his blusterful nature. As good as Starmer was at framing precise questions to expose the bullshit and lies the government spin, he's not got enough cunt about him for me. When you've got someone on the ropes, change direction and knock him out. Then again, as it is politics rather than real life (unfortunately), if he consistently asks the right questions and frames them properly, a TKO every week should be enough to expose their true nature and ensure their unelectability next time. I am reminded of "if you're not angry you're not paying attention". I want Starmer to be raging but I concede that his strategy is probably best.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on May 06, 2020, 02:51:23 PM
Seems they are already backtracking on the 200,000 target.
Wonder if that's a record?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: bearsdenred on May 06, 2020, 11:16:13 PM
649 people died today, and still these fucking english muppets want to release lockdown

 :dunno: WHY ???

Are they seriously just letting people die now.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 06, 2020, 11:36:45 PM
649 people died today, and still these fucking english muppets want to release lockdown

 :dunno: WHY ???

Are they seriously just letting people die now.

Not my take. Globally deaths are slowing, as percentages of the days before. For reasons I don't know. The economy needs to move again but with proper risk-mitigation which means intelligent planning and social distancing.

I wouldn't be so free about the USA however. Much as this disease is invidious, it can be managed past... if we had developed a decent test system, when we needed to, beginning three and a half months ago, which we didn't so fuck knows really.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on May 07, 2020, 03:59:43 PM
Carrying on the testing bullshit

https://twitter.com/JamesClayton5

Mainstream media complicit in 'celebrating' tory success.

I wish I could say I'm surprised by YouGov's recent snap poll stating 50% of people would vote Tory if there was an election tomorrow.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Elgindon on May 07, 2020, 04:10:52 PM
Two interesting perspectives on Corona.While lock down was needed initially,looks like were trying to over control it,when we maybe need to let the virus run its course if we can protect the vulnerable better than we have

https://unherd.com/thepost/german-virologist-finds-covid-fatality-rate-of-0-24-0-36/

https://unherd.com/thepost/nobel-prize-winning-scientist-the-covid-19-epidemic-was-never-exponential/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on May 08, 2020, 10:47:14 AM
https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/security-behind-nhs-contact-tracing-app (https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/security-behind-nhs-contact-tracing-app)

Pretty comprehensive overview of the app here. Worth reading, it's not too technical. It seems to me that the decision to choose a centralised app over a decentralised one is entirely correct for the UK. This is because the decentralised model wouldn't really work with such low testing. The key being self-reporting and the ability to do this with a decentralised app. The true/false nature of infected or not can only be established via wide scale testing. The app seems like it'll be secure enough in this form. Remains to be seen how it'll evolve over time and how transparent changes will be.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 08, 2020, 12:31:34 PM
Two fatal flaws in the NHSX initiative.

Firstly, it needs more than 50% of the population to download it.

That ain't happening. This requires the majority to trust the government and given the lack of transparency, the lies and the spin they have subjected us to for many months now, there's not going to be even 10 million phones who download this App. It isn't even NHS anyway, having been farmed out at exorbitant cost - it's theft of our money again if we're honest about it - to Cummings' mate and his brother. Predictably, it's going horribly wrong already. I built an App WAY more complex than a simple self-diagnose and contact-trace one for a fraction of the cost, less than 0.0005% to be precise. Of course we're not comparing like with like but the only cost implications between my App (getting done by real-world experts) and this one is the data hosting and the employment of tracers, which I'm pretty certain was NOT counted in the original £250m figure. The data hosting won't cost £50k p.a. I'm building another App at present which IS complex, will take at least ten or twenty times the programming hours than this NHSX one and I'm budgeting less than 20k.

Secondly, the yahoo ned culture ingrained into the UK from years of austerity and neglect of social services, particularly education means that many will download the App just to put shit into it, pretending to be infected when they're not.

They should've gone to Asia and bought/borrowed their technology. Inventing from scratch with non-experts who have no experience in this field was insanity but fits the same old pattern of handing out public funds amongst themselves.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: donsdaft on May 08, 2020, 06:08:55 PM
Fuck staying in for 14 days because some wimp has a headache and wants a test done.

Then another wimp.
Then the first wimp again.

Serious stuff I admit but I’m not letting some bloody hypochondriacs interfere with my life.
It’s bad enough that we have to pay for them in the first place.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 08, 2020, 06:11:35 PM
Fuck staying in for 14 days because some wimp has a headache and wants a test done.

Then another wimp.
Then the first wimp again.

Serious stuff I admit but I’m not letting some bloody hypochondriacs interfere with my life.
It’s bad enough that we have to pay for them in the first place.

Genuine question dd. Can you put new lenses into existing frames? Is that easy enough aye?

Like my Rayban specs but will need a new prescription soon I reckon.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on May 08, 2020, 06:13:14 PM
Fuck staying in for 14 days because some wimp has a headache and wants a test done.

Then another wimp.
Then the first wimp again.

Serious stuff I admit but I’m not letting some bloody hypochondriacs interfere with my life.
It’s bad enough that we have to pay for them in the first place.

The downside of having children
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: donsdaft on May 08, 2020, 10:01:50 PM
Genuine question dd. Can you put new lenses into existing frames? Is that easy enough aye?

Like my Rayban specs but will need a new prescription soon I reckon.


Aye, nae problem.
Although the modern plastic raybans are absolutely pish.
A man trained in 1975 will probably manage it though 😀
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: donsdaft on May 08, 2020, 10:02:47 PM
The downside of having children

I’ve had a few.......
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 09, 2020, 02:07:06 AM

Aye, nae problem.
Although the modern plastic raybans are absolutely pish.
A man trained in 1975 will probably manage it though 😀

You got the job. Will come past when you're open again 👍🏻
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: donsdaft on May 09, 2020, 07:23:22 AM
I go in at 11.00 Mon -Sat
But we won’t manage an eye test for some time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 09, 2020, 09:48:09 AM
I go in at 11.00 Mon -Sat
But we won’t manage an eye test for some time.

Roger Ramjet
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 09, 2020, 09:51:56 AM
All inbound flights to be quarantined now. More reactive Tory policy, behind the curve from day one.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on May 09, 2020, 10:34:15 AM
All inbound flights to be quarantined now. More reactive Tory policy, behind the curve from day one.

I had assumed incorrectly, that all people coming to the country were put in quarantine for 14 days and was shocked to discover not the case yesterday. I believe most other places, including the US, have been doing this for some time.

Still plenty people seem to think the Tories are doing an excellent job of managing the situation.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: donsdaft on May 09, 2020, 11:06:20 AM
Fuck flying, they are going to make it nearly impossible.

The channel tunnel trains are still operating (they'll forget about them)

I've always fancied driving to Budapest, just a case of persuading Mrs Donsdaft.

I'll wait until the third bottle of wine to try to persuade her to let me book the train.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 09, 2020, 11:10:51 AM
https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/security-behind-nhs-contact-tracing-app (https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/security-behind-nhs-contact-tracing-app)

Pretty comprehensive overview of the app here. Worth reading, it's not too technical. It seems to me that the decision to choose a centralised app over a decentralised one is entirely correct for the UK. This is because the decentralised model wouldn't really work with such low testing. The key being self-reporting and the ability to do this with a decentralised app. The true/false nature of infected or not can only be established via wide scale testing. The app seems like it'll be secure enough in this form. Remains to be seen how it'll evolve over time and how transparent changes will be.

It seems that the government might not agree with you now, as they consider yet another U-turn;

https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2020/may/07/uk-may-ditch-nhs-contact-tracing-app-for-apple-and-google-model?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on May 09, 2020, 02:08:59 PM
It seems that the government might not agree with you now, as they consider yet another U-turn;

https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2020/may/07/uk-may-ditch-nhs-contact-tracing-app-for-apple-and-google-model?__twitter_impression=true

Good news, the decentralised option would be the one I would choose if we were a normal country too, it's the best all round and the one I'd be most likely to download. I still don't think it's best for the UK, however, as it has to come hand in hand with rigorous "manual" contact tracing, which it doesn't seem we're even remotely set up for. I can see them sticking with their original choice. I think Scotland should have done it's own thing months ago and ordered its own testing and it's own app.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 09, 2020, 03:05:52 PM
I think Scotland should have done it's own thing months ago and ordered its own testing and it's own app.

If we could have, we would have. But like New York City in relation to the federal government, there is a limit to how much autonomy we actually have. If Scotland could have negotiated a 10% (roughly, a per capita one) payment of the UK costs of testing, PPE, the App and all other Covid expenditure, to extricate ourselves from the shit show clown show, that would have been ideal even despite the actual advantages of a bigger purchasing power. But alas, it was never an ideal world.

Good on Miriam Margoyles speaking out. She'll get slaughtered by the snowflakes and the Tories and the MSM but she only said what many of us were thinking, or at least what I was thinking. I was hoping that BlowJob would die rather than come back a better person, an exercise in futility given his insane parents, his upbringing and his privileged otherworldly view on life, the universe and everything (which may or may not have been 42).
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on May 10, 2020, 01:07:23 PM
Good news, the decentralised option would be the one I would choose if we were a normal country too, it's the best all round and the one I'd be most likely to download. I still don't think it's best for the UK, however, as it has to come hand in hand with rigorous "manual" contact tracing, which it doesn't seem we're even remotely set up for. I can see them sticking with their original choice. I think Scotland should have done it's own thing months ago and ordered its own testing and it's own app.

So apparently much like the 'brilliant' settled status application App, this new CV-19 tracing one will also have issues working with certain phones.

Quote
The UK’s coronavirus contact tracing app, being developed as part of the government’s pandemic response, may not work with either Apple or Google phones.

Dr Michael Veale, lecturer in digital rights and regulation at University College London, said the UK is “really going against the grain” in its development of the app.

Comparing the government’s app with the app his team is working on, Veale said: “We’ve been working in a way where all of the matching between people happens on a user’s device, not in a central server, and that’s generally considered to be more privacy preserving. Whereas the UK has taken a different approach, which builds a social network of people in the cloud.”

“The problem is that Apple and Google, Apple in particular, have stated that they won’t allow this kind of central system to be created, it doesn’t work with their operating system,” he said. “And so the UK is really going against the grain and therefore it’s finding problems on both Google and Apple phones.”

He said he does not think the app will be up and running in the UK before June.

Cabinet minister Robert Jenrick denied the government was already working on a second coronavirus app, but said ministers would move to a different app if necessary.

“As far as I’m aware we’re not developing a second app but we are paying attention to the other apps that exist elsewhere in the world,” he told Marr. “And if we need to adapt our app or move to a different model, obviously we will do.”

Im looking forward to the tories releasing a public information film on Betamax & Laserdisc


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on May 10, 2020, 02:07:37 PM
So apparently much like the 'brilliant' settled status application App, this new CV-19 tracing one will also have issues working with certain phones.

Im looking forward to the tories releasing a public information film on Betamax & Laserdisc

Rock and a hard place for NHS though (or nhsx, or whatever they're called, that specified the app). They need the data that a centralised app would provide, which the UK's testing approach is not. The decentralised model offers the NHS absolutely no assistance in controlling the virus, it just helps individuals. Unless the extensive use of testing and tracking occurs, there is no data on any hotspots, any second waves etc. It looks to me like the NHS are trying to mitigate the government's ineptitude in testing through the app, so I feel a bit sorry for them on this one.

Interesting that "protect the NHS" doesn't seem to appear on the new slogan for retards. No point pretending I suppose. Thankfully, the US model available post-brexit won't even pretend to give a fuck.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 10, 2020, 02:34:05 PM
I think there's a danger in "mixing metaphors" here. We are not experts in App building. We, like the NHS and like the government, haven't built a national system before nor have we faced a virus on this scale. All we can do is learn and observe and by applying some basic critical thinking, we can identify some of the core issues.

It was obvious more than three months ago that data was needed. John Snow would have turned in his grave (the doctor who pinpointed cholera to the water pump in Broad Street, London rather than Jon Snow of Channel 4) at the UK government's decision to abandon the common-sense strategy of testing and tracking. And the NHSX App is not an NHS initiative, having been farmed out to independent private parties at a cost of £250,000,000, parties that may or may not include former employees and/or associates of Cambridge Analytica.

The news that 50,000 tests were sent to the US was interesting. And an utter disgrace.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on May 10, 2020, 04:18:23 PM
Not an expert, but I'm proficient and understand a lot of the jargon where I don't have first hand experience. Although, I didn't know that the app was being specified by third parties, I understood it was specified by NHS, being built by third parties, with data on NHS servers, but I don't know why I had that in my head. 

Aye, the testing going to the US is bizarre. This shit should have been sorted out years ago. We have heaps of testing facilities in the UK, they should all have been involved in pandemic drills and all have an action plan, and a coverage area. Instead of fucking off to yankland, we should have been hyper-localising our response and everyone in the country should have been aware of their role and what was expected of them. Instead, we're still redacting shite and not publishing data that decisions are based on. Which scientist suggested changing to "stay alert" (for an invisible virus)?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 10, 2020, 06:19:34 PM
Stay alert is good; it means 1. Become alert, and then 2. Stay in this heightened state of awareness. Two words only, an excellent demonstration of the transparency and efficiency for which this government is earning a great reputation.

Staying alert at home however - as Jenrick uttered today - is unfathomably stupid and in one fell swoop, may well have tarnished the reputation irreconcilably. The fact that he broke the isolation rules didn't cost him his position however, unlike the Edinburgh posh wifie and Stat Ferguson's dalliance into Staats. This may be an indication of the loyalty that this government embraces and their sporting nature, giving Jenrick more chances to come back from the Landet editor ripping his arse off on Question Time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on May 10, 2020, 07:01:41 PM
There used to be a sign behind the bar in a pub back home

'Be alert! Britain needs Lerts'
Sort of slogan I can see above a BJ version of the Kitchener poster.

Guardian is claiming part of tonight's speech to the nation was recorded yersterday which hasnt gone down very well with the cabinet.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: donsdaft on May 11, 2020, 06:55:44 AM
I don't expect anything to make any actual sense from now on.

This 14 day quarantine thing?
Do you just promise to stay in for 14 days?
Ha!

Anyway, regarding my proposed car journey to Budapest, I went to sleep last night thinking " no quarantine for me" because the twat had said air travel only.
I woke this morning to find that it didn't include France anyway.
As far as I am aware the tunnel doesn't go all the way to Hungary.
Now this means I get to not quarantine twice, not that I would have anyway.




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on May 11, 2020, 04:05:46 PM
Quote
'Stay at home if you can. Go to work if you must'.
???

That sounds like something from a passive aggressive domestic argument. Perhaps it was the last thing he heard before he headed off to Westminster this morning
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 12, 2020, 09:45:10 AM
Starmer playing a stormer

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 12, 2020, 10:04:16 AM
https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

I thought from the start there was something fishy about this virus. Now I'm hoping it was (and is continuing to be) government incompetence rather than something more sinister.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on May 12, 2020, 10:06:20 AM
Starmer playing a stormer

Aye, but can he eat a bacon roll?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 12, 2020, 10:21:39 AM
Aye, but can he eat a bacon roll?

Ed: Millions ban together to avoid pig eating, for reasons not known to me. Perhaps they fear that their ancestors were fed to them. Perhaps that should've been millions banned.

Edit: Millions band together... That's it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on May 12, 2020, 10:32:19 AM
https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

I thought from the start there was something fishy about this virus. Now I'm hoping it was (and is continuing to be) government incompetence rather than something more sinister.

Interesting, but some fairly flawed arguments in there for something supposedly working against propaganda. Citing a rate of 0.2% is a little misleading. That 0.2% is inclusive of a lockdown. Giving the example of South Korea as an example of a country not in lockdown doesn't really tell the whole picture, and their approach directly opposes their other point on privacy. The flippant suggestion along the lines of that the old were going to die anyway sounds like something Cummings thought up and has been debunked elsewhere. The suggestion that kids are safe and should be at school is bizarre; as if kids aren't in contact with adults and couldn't spread the disease.

I'm all for seeing the other side, but these aren't balanced arguments and raises questions about the swprs and who they represent. I'm guessing that they're probably correct in many of their assertions but it's lack of nuance is difficult to look past. Also, I expect the government to take a cautious approach to something that isn't fully understood. If only they'd do that with other things, such as chemicals, antibiotics etc.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 12, 2020, 10:43:55 AM
Rico, given that your comments on the piece aren't even half an hour old, are you sure you've researched both the organisation and the many cited sources sufficiently in order to be so disparaging?

It's a debate I've been following from day one and tweeted a month ago that Hitchens may have been right all along. Even Trump came out with the cure can't be worse than the problem. As someone with no epidemiological expertise, I'm personally not qualified to strategise on the major crisis. I am qualified to observe however and I see incompetence - mostly of management and communication - and fear-mongering. This "media-epidemic" may have contorted the truth, adversely influenced our weak government and may have resulted in a disproportionate response. I don't know. All I do know is that nobody I know personally has been infected far less died of Covid-19 or with it (the distinction being absolutely key).
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on May 12, 2020, 12:20:09 PM
Rico, given that your comments on the piece aren't even half an hour old, are you sure you've researched both the organisation and the many cited sources sufficiently in order to be so disparaging?

Nope, that's why I said it raises questions, rather than provides proof. I had a look at a few of the sources (Sputnik etc), but I was commenting on the lack of balance in the article, nothing else. It presents very basic arguments that raise very basic questions that should have been addressed in a good article. There is no good reason to over-simplify an article if you're confident of its accuracy and don't have an agenda. Countering one perceived agenda with your own isn't necessary. I'm just saying that the article isn't helpful, balanced or one I'd trust off the bat. I'll definitely look through it though.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 12, 2020, 12:49:12 PM
Nope, that's why I said it raises questions, rather than provides proof. I had a look at a few of the sources (Sputnik etc), but I was commenting on the lack of balance in the article, nothing else. It presents very basic arguments that raise very basic questions that should have been addressed in a good article. There is no good reason to over-simplify an article if you're confident of its accuracy and don't have an agenda. Countering one perceived agenda with your own isn't necessary. I'm just saying that the article isn't helpful, balanced or one I'd trust off the bat. I'll definitely look through it though.

Nope, you haven't researched it sufficiently and yet you are very disparaging? That doesn't make sense to me.

I don't think "proof" of much pertaining to this crisis is available generally but I don't agree that the presentation of a wide collection of opinions needs to be "balanced" when it's putting forward a particular argument, for which some (starting with 25) relevant facts are being provided in support of this view.

Edit: please ask three questions raised from reading this article?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on May 12, 2020, 02:39:15 PM
Nope, you haven't researched it sufficiently and yet you are very disparaging? That doesn't make sense to me.

I don't think "proof" of much pertaining to this crisis is available generally but I don't agree that the presentation of a wide collection of opinions needs to be "balanced" when it's putting forward a particular argument, for which some (starting with 25) relevant facts are being provided in support of this view.

Edit: please ask three questions raised from reading this article?

I wouldn't say I was very disparaging, just critical, but fair enough.

1. Who defined the ascertainment bias in the 0.2% figure and how was it established?

2. Absolute risk doesn't seem to make any sense in the non-peer-reviewed backup. Why would this not change over time? Certainly when randomly compared with driving (a very known rate of deaths generally speaking). Why split into <65 and >65? Especially given the significantly higher rate in 40-65 year olds (who would also be more at risk than from driving) and the fact that the under 18s don't drive.

3. "Up to 80% remain symptom free". Unless your own objective is the production of propaganda, why would you use this stat in questioning the need for lockdown? One, it's very well known and repeated often by government and in the media. Two, what about the very high figure of the remaining 20%? It's just not a stat that would appear in a balanced article. It doesn't belong there. It's like the person was trying to reach an arbitrary target of 25 reasons rather than a good, balanced article.

That's just from the first three points. These are 3 pretty weak arguments (in the article I mean!) In my opinion. There's probably some good stuff in there too, that is really quite relevant, but if they'd focused on the two or three important points it'd have made a convincing case I expect. It strikes me that the author has a pre-defined position (as we all do of course) and tried to find every single thing that backed that position without filter. Certainly not the work of an "anti-propaganda" proponent. The problem is that we/they're criticising the media, but any good journalist would question nearly all the points the article makes. Like you, I think there's a story there, but this doesn't find it and nor did hitchens from a month or so back. They both suffer from quantity over quality, throwing lots of little accusations/criticisms around without anything smoking gun and the basic inaccuracies (hitchens - who I quite enjoy - had a glaring one, I can't remember what it was) or deficiency of argument. Hopefully they'll keep looking.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 12, 2020, 04:00:07 PM
1. Who defined the ascertainment bias in the 0.2% figure and how was it established?

If you click on the link - the about 0.2% which is highlighted - you will see all 52 studies and the websites to back up their results (the first one being published in the Lancet).

Fuck knows about your other two questions but I think on this first question alone, there's a lot more detail than you first thought available to you, which until we examine the evidence, means that we can't be sceptical or disparaging about the whole text.


It strikes me that the author has a pre-defined position (as we all do of course) and tried to find every single thing that backed that position without filter.

I vehemently disagree. There are detailed FACTS being presented here and whilst the whole casts doubt on the extreme lockdown measures taken by most governments, this is exactly what democracy and opposition is all about, examining the alternatives and establishing the boundaries of the debate, even seeking to look beyond them.

I also dispute that Hitchens has left ANY holes in his position, far less any glaring ones. One of the sources that he quotes, Lord Sumption, was interviewed by Evan Davis on Radio 4 and said exactly what he has consistently been saying for months. Even the government in the 50 page document this week is coming round to admitting that Hitchens was right all along from their words on page 10.

As I said, you and I - or at least me - are not qualified to know what the best strategy might have been. We are qualified to look and listen however and you would need to be a wee bit more diligent in your looking and listening before jumping to conclusions about the group who coordinated these facts or their purpose in presenting them. Personally, it never crossed my mind what their agenda might be. I was just interested in the facts they presented, some of which I had seen before and were sources that I strongly believe have been correct, Professors John Ioannidis of Stanford and Sucharit Bhakdi of Mainz in particular, both having been introduced to me by Hitchens in March, which I shared widely.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on May 12, 2020, 07:15:59 PM
If you click on the link - the about 0.2% which is highlighted - you will see all 52 studies and the websites to back up their results (the first one being published in the Lancet).

Fuck knows about your other two questions but I think on this first question alone, there's a lot more detail than you first thought available to you, which until we examine the evidence, means that we can't be sceptical or disparaging about the whole text.


I vehemently disagree. There are detailed FACTS being presented here and whilst the whole casts doubt on the extreme lockdown measures taken by most governments, this is exactly what democracy and opposition is all about, examining the alternatives and establishing the boundaries of the debate, even seeking to look beyond them.

I also dispute that Hitchens has left ANY holes in his position, far less any glaring ones. One of the sources that he quotes, Lord Sumption, was interviewed by Evan Davis on Radio 4 and said exactly what he has consistently been saying for months. Even the government in the 50 page document this week is coming round to admitting that Hitchens was right all along from their words on page 10.

As I said, you and I - or at least me - are not qualified to know what the best strategy might have been. We are qualified to look and listen however and you would need to be a wee bit more diligent in your looking and listening before jumping to conclusions about the group who coordinated these facts or their purpose in presenting them. Personally, it never crossed my mind what their agenda might be. I was just interested in the facts they presented, some of which I had seen before and were sources that I strongly believe have been correct, Professors John Ioannidis of Stanford and Sucharit Bhakdi of Mainz in particular, both having been introduced to me by Hitchens in March, which I shared widely.

I'm not jumping to conclusions, I said "it raises questions". I haven't concluded anything. I asked about ascertainment bias, which is only mentioned in the backup, which I obviously opened. The attachment to the Lancet does not back up the 0.2% figure, it backs up the 7.1 figure that has an ascertainment bias attributed to it to make up the 0.54%. If that bias is slightly amended it has a big affect on the result. I'm not saying that they're wrong, I'm saying that they haven't given the backup for the bias, or I've missed it.

There are not detailed facts, there are a mixture of facts and opinion. That's fine of course, but instead of chasing the 25, they could have concisely provided 3 or 4 good challenges like ionnadis' cruise ship one rather than the one of his that they link here in point 2, which I've read and added questions here (again, I could be wrong, but that's my conclusion on reading the available text, hence why I'm questioning it). Point 4 suggests a background immunity, but that isn't the conclusion of the article linked, which is a small study that raises questions that could be answered in a larger study.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on May 12, 2020, 07:45:44 PM
Facts about covid-19

9 Many media reports of young and healthy people dying from Covid19 turned out to be false: many of these young people either did not die from Covid19, they had already been seriously ill (e.g. from undiagnosed leukaemia), or they were in fact 109 instead of 9 years old.

They link to 3 cases where that occurred (1 still tbc). That's not "many". That's a handful among thousands if you include the young lass in the UK too, which they didn't mention. So it isn't "a fact about covid-19" at all, it's misleading and inaccurate.

The biggest issue is that this article and the publisher are presenting themselves as an antidote to the inaccuracies of the mainstream media. If they're going to do that then they need to be beyond reproach and certainly not easily taken apart by the links they provide. I'm annoyed, because cunts like this are part of the problem. They need to do better. As I've said, like you, I think there's a story there. This isn't it. Hitchens seems a lot closer to the mark and a lot more careful with his claims.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on May 12, 2020, 07:58:18 PM
And this is the bit from hitchens' otherwise excellent article that you linked a while back:

"Crucially, those who began by claiming that we faced half a million deaths from the Coronavirus in this country have now lowered their estimate.  Professor Neil Ferguson was one of those largely responsible for the original panic, claiming half a million people could die. He or others from Imperial college have twice revised his terrifying prophecy, first to fewer than 20,000 and then on Friday to 5,700"

They didn't revise the figures, the figures were with and without lockdown (or other, i.e.do nothing) measures, the 500k being if we did nothing. A hugely important distinction - massive difference - which I was surprised to read from someone as diligent as hitchens. The rest is good reading and thought provoking. I'm not anti hitchens at all, despite not agreeing with him on a lot of things. He makes his points properly and is light years away from the Tories in government despite sharing much of their ideology.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on May 12, 2020, 09:32:44 PM
https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: donsdaft on May 12, 2020, 11:47:54 PM
It's hard to believe, but they're actually going to try and take credit for the death rate falling in care homes.

All that's happening is that they're running out of old people.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on May 13, 2020, 12:16:04 PM
Starmer has just murdered Boris at PMQs again, as one sided as you can get.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on May 13, 2020, 12:24:38 PM
Starmer has just murdered Boris at PMQs again, as one sided as you can get.

What makes it harder to take is the fact he was voted into power, first by his party and then by the electorate.

The man is a clown, albeit a very dangerous clown who should not be anywhere near power. Labour should be exploting the current situation and hammering him and his party on their many failings.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on May 13, 2020, 12:42:03 PM
Only reading a transcript from the Guardian but FFS the questions/ comments coming from the Tories compared to the opposition parties

1 Tory asks about a fucking steam railway
1 Tory asks what fuckwit thinks about the Hay-on-Wye Book festival going on line

Theres people dying, people living on the streets, and others soon to join them and these 'elected' officials waste their constituency's questions on that?


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 13, 2020, 04:55:14 PM
What makes it harder to take is the fact he was voted into power, first by his party and then by the electorate.

The man is a clown, albeit a very dangerous clown who should not be anywhere near power. Labour should be exploting the current situation and hammering him and his party on their many failings.

Whilst I totally agree, I think Starmer has won me round actually. A typical Scotsman (like me) would get the sledgehammer out and just batter the jolly japester jester to death. Keir is using fine scalpels to consistently remove pieces of the clown's flesh. His incisive line of questioning is razor-sharp and he exposes more and more of the empty one and his lack of substance in particular.

The letter from Starmer to BlowJob has just been responded to. Brilliant. He's got him on the ropes. BJ is finished already and given his lack of everything, has no chance of getting re-elected. It's a long game Starmer is playing here - unless a vote of no confidence can be had - and the scalpel approach is way more effective than the bludgeoning that certainly my own instinct favours.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on May 13, 2020, 05:35:14 PM
Loving Starmer’s forensic approach, it’s perfect for these times, as he’s picking the Government’s approach apart. BoJo definitely on the ropes, the devolved nations have made him look like a right cunt. It wouldn’t be good to see a spike in deaths in 3 weeks, but politically it would be very interesting.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 13, 2020, 09:51:19 PM
The Channel 4 special on South Korea is exposing the lack of leadership and the horrendous lack of intelligence within this Westminster government.

When Philip Schofield is shouting "Can't you see it's bonkers" at Hancock and the Cabinet minister's first response is "No" - because he genuinely can't think properly - then you know it can't get worse.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Jute on May 14, 2020, 11:56:09 AM
Loving Starmer’s forensic approach, it’s perfect for these times, as he’s picking the Government’s approach apart. BoJo definitely on the ropes, the devolved nations have made him look like a right cunt. It wouldn’t be good to see a spike in deaths in 3 weeks, but politically it would be very interesting.

Any easing of the lock down is going to lead to an increase in cases as is shown in Germany and South Korea. It is how that increase is managed that will be the difference. I have no doubt BoJo and his three ring circus will make a rip roaring cunt of it which will see deaths increase again.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on May 14, 2020, 02:19:14 PM
So the government are leaving "Official Sensitive" documents on Google Drive.
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/nhs-covid-19-app-health-status-future
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on May 14, 2020, 03:36:36 PM
So the government are leaving "Official Sensitive" documents on Google Drive.
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/nhs-covid-19-app-health-status-future

Well its hard to leave them on buses and trains at the moment
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on May 19, 2020, 09:31:47 PM
So what’s happened to Boris - bottled it? Paternity leave? Furloughed?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: bearsdenred on May 20, 2020, 12:34:45 AM
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/gmb-piers-morgan-susanna-reid-where-is-boris-johnson-a4444731.html

if these 2 can't find Boris, then we have a major problem.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: donsdaft on May 20, 2020, 09:43:25 AM
I refer you to my previous song.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on May 22, 2020, 08:59:48 PM
Now Cummings is caught flouting the governments own rules.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/22/dominic-cummings-durham-trip-coronavirus-lockdown
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 23, 2020, 11:46:15 AM
Now Cummings is caught flouting the governments own rules.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/22/dominic-cummings-durham-trip-coronavirus-lockdown

Ferguson and the wifie who went to Elie had to resign but Jenrick didn't. This would be double standards if the rules were clear, which they might be if I bothered to log on to a dot gov website to read them which I haven't. I understood that we weren't allowed to visit folk back then and still can't, although we can meet one parent at a time in a park I think, which even Schofield described as utterly bonkers to Handcock.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on May 23, 2020, 05:18:39 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/23/lockdown-row-key-points-cummings-and-johnson-must-address
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on May 23, 2020, 06:54:14 PM
They're fairly weak questions, they'll be easily batted off and ignored. They'll be gone by next week. They miss a fairly obvious question. Everyone else in Britain was under the impression that if you got sick, your child would isolate in the house with you and be in danger of contracting the illness and witness to your suffering and a bit neglected until you were better. Was it always government policy that you could ship your kids off to relatives when sick? Were the families of children who have since contracted the more serious - for kids - Kawasaki disease aware that they weren't obliged to put their kids in harm's way?
For me, these offences are small and require only an apology and remorse, similarly Ferguson and the Scottish wifie. I don't expect them to be infallible. Cummings hasn't shown even that. Fucking cretin.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tom_widdows on May 23, 2020, 08:17:40 PM
Seems the Daily Mirror and Guardian have found witnesses saying he effectively did a small tour of the local area.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/23/new-witnesses-cast-doubt-on-dominic-cummingss-lockdown-claims

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on May 23, 2020, 09:12:38 PM
Seems the Daily Mirror and Guardian have found witnesses saying he effectively did a small tour of the local area.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/23/new-witnesses-cast-doubt-on-dominic-cummingss-lockdown-claims

Yep. I just can’t see him surviving, even by this Governments standards, this will run for a while yet. If it reaches PMQs then Starmer will pick the bones out of it no problem.

They can’t tell people to self isolate for 7 days, and 14 for the whole household, just to go ahead and do their own thing.

It’s amazing BoJo is getting away with sending stooges to face the music every evening.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Elgindon on May 23, 2020, 09:23:03 PM
 Well,the ugly dweeb should be arrested for looks alone,but tbh can we nae get away fae the constant finger pointing and discuss what our next options are.Weve a shite generation of politicians,we get it

  Theres talk of a potential vaccine by September,but we cant pin our hopes on that since no vaccine has been found for any of the other Coronaviruses,eg Sars,Mers etc(just to cheer you up),and with talk of a second wave in Autumn - is another lockdown an option?,Others are saying the virus may have already peaked,we still don't really know the right thing to do,so where's the cut off point where the damage to the economy and normal life does more harm than the virus itself? Eg cancer/heart patients delayed treatments causing premature death,or the knock on effect in the third world causing starvation because our,and their Western reliant economies are in depression.
    If all weve done is kept the virus at bay,and with scientific opinion being so fragmented,confronting and learning quickly how to live with it seems the less dangerous option to living in fear, if we can protect the vulnerable better than we have done,and develop smart systems of work.Whatever Boris and co decide to do, as much will depend how the public and businesses think on the hoof once restrictions ease? 

   

 

 

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on May 24, 2020, 08:52:15 AM
A bit of blue on blue as Steve Baker goes in studs up:

https://thecritic.co.uk/boris-must-take-back-control/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TheDeeDon on May 24, 2020, 09:28:38 AM
Well,the ugly dweeb should be arrested for looks alone,but tbh can we nae get away fae the constant finger pointing and discuss what our next options are.Weve a shite generation of politicians,we get it

  Theres talk of a potential vaccine by September,but we cant pin our hopes on that since no vaccine has been found for any of the other Coronaviruses,eg Sars,Mers etc(just to cheer you up),and with talk of a second wave in Autumn - is another lockdown an option?,Others are saying the virus may have already peaked,we still don't really know the right thing to do,so where's the cut off point where the damage to the economy and normal life does more harm than the virus itself? Eg cancer/heart patients delayed treatments causing premature death,or the knock on effect in the third world causing starvation because our,and their Western reliant economies are in depression.
    If all weve done is kept the virus at bay,and scientific opinion being so fragmented,confronting and learning quickly how to live with it seems the less dangerous option to living in fear, if we can protect the vulnerable better than we have done,and develop smart systems of work.Whatever Boris and co decide to do, as much will depend how the public and businesses think on the hoof once restrictions ease? 

Only an assumption here, but I believe that other COVID strains have never had a vaccine because it never hit the Western nations as bad as this COVID 19 strain has, so there will be more money and more importantly more of the the right research now being done looking into getting a virus vaccine, which I am sure they will at some point.

As for Cumming, even if they do sack him, he will still be pulling the strings behind the scenes anyway until a period of time lapses and he will be back in the fold once again. The bigger problem we have is Bojo, his terrible cabinet and the many millions who voted for him in December and still would if we went again.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on May 25, 2020, 08:10:12 AM
Fucking impressive from Bojo last night. Top gaslighting. An entire nation. Trump couldn't have managed that one. Has anyone ever found that Russia investigation that got released just before the election?

Edit: it must be calculated though? To get the British public to properly ignore the lockdown and begin pursuing the herd immunity once again. Then blame them for the inevitable second waves. Expect a big attack on teachers in the coming days too when they fail to return on 1st June in engurland.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on May 25, 2020, 11:55:56 AM
Edit: it must be calculated though? To get the British public to properly ignore the lockdown and begin pursuing the herd immunity once again. Then blame them for the inevitable second waves. Expect a big attack on teachers in the coming days too when they fail to return on 1st June in engurland.

Yes I think that's a possibility, but with Durham police now involved BoJo is going to come under huge pressure.
I think this could end very badly for BoJo.  I suspect Cummings is very capable of taking him down and knows where all the bodies are buried (e.g. Russian report and god knows what else) - and that could be what BoJo was threatened with.  What a ridiculous situation to put one man before the rest of the country.

It would be funny if this wasn't about a pandemic.  Absolutely shocking performance last night from somebody who is supposed to be leading the country through this.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 25, 2020, 01:18:33 PM

There was an inevitability about all this.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: donsdaft on May 25, 2020, 01:37:29 PM
Is Cummings going to be “addressing the nation” this afternoon?

Comes to something when a jumped up backroom boy gets to do that.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 25, 2020, 01:57:34 PM
Apparently he is. This is great karma in action. He was despised before he broke the rules and it was always going to be the case that he would get his comeuppance. Much as he thought he was special and that he could walk on water, it's not so much that he's making the same mistake as so many others have previously but the fact that his advocates are so rotten to the core that he's been allowed to run unchecked for so long. He's a one-trick pony and his sloganeering trick has evaporated. Underestimate the intelligence of the British public at your peril. They're stupid as fuck for sure but they're not that stupid. #CumGate will result in his expulsion and whilst it should be immediately, I suspect that BlowJob's hand will be forced later in the week, yet another U-turn in a period of so many of them.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: donsdaft on May 25, 2020, 03:59:42 PM
They must have known that whether your name is Sejanus, Cecil, Cromwell or Cummings.

There’s only one end to your career.

Slightly less bloody these days, admittedly.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: donsdaft on May 25, 2020, 04:50:43 PM
Well, he made a reasonable job of that.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Kowalski on May 25, 2020, 05:50:53 PM
The most amazing thing about that steaming pile of horseshit (who gets in their car to test their eyesight) is I think Cummings & co believe that’s the end of it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 25, 2020, 06:16:17 PM
Well, he made a reasonable job of that.

Yeah he did. The double standard is that others have had to resign for less, less because they weren't symptomatic and therefore a much reduced risk of spreading by travelling.

I don't think any of them should lose their jobs personally but in his case, he made the rules that he broke and if the courts have fined people for breaking rules, he needs to be fined too. But he's right, there are exceptions to rules and extreme circumstances so everybody getting their knickers in a twist need to calm down. He's a wank and he'll get his one day soon.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on May 25, 2020, 08:55:20 PM
Really? He just blatantly lied to the public and nobody questioned him properly. Fucking testing yer eyes? He doesn't even bother to hide his contempt for the public with that load of absolute horseshite. Why the fuck did the press not tear his fucking head off if his eyes were an issue? That's up there with Boris' bus hobby shite, just trotting out lies with zero fucks given, as if you're trying to see how ridiculous a story you can come up with. Hope somebody is waiting outside his house to hoof him in the nads to really make him frightened of being in lockdown in London. Every day for a month. Fucker.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: donsdaft on May 25, 2020, 10:03:48 PM
Is that better or worse?

Better on the green or better on the red?

Now if you’d just drive to Barnard Castle.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 26, 2020, 09:57:07 AM
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/05/why-barnard-castle/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tlg1903 on May 26, 2020, 05:36:34 PM
I've been paying increasing attention to Craig Murray the past wee while, very switched on guy.  2 things about that article I would like to know buwlt we never will. I would love to know how much gsk made from the NHS by bribing other companies not to produce their out of patent drugs and also how much they paid in bribes altogether.  37.6 mill is a hefty fine to most eyes but they could have made billions extra from the nhs and given no-one ever went to jail from it it reeks of slap on the wrist.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rocket_scientist on May 26, 2020, 09:41:24 PM
I have facts about how the NHS get exploited by big pharma. Or should I say, two of my family do. That is a disgrace of itself but the bigger tragedy is how the mainstream media aren't interested and how doctors and consultants can't speak out for fear of the inevitable consequences of doing so. GSK are an evil organisation.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: minijc on May 27, 2020, 04:53:18 PM
Boris having an absolute mare here taking questions from MPs
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: RicoS321 on May 27, 2020, 11:41:13 PM
Bringing forward the test and trace whilst telling people to move on is a fairly transparent game. Rushed out to deflect attention, can't imagine what could go wrong. It'll be a fucking shit show. To the extent that it might actually keep Cummings out of the press until his next fuck up.