Author Topic: mikey devlin  (Read 18355 times)

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Offline RicoS321

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Re: mikey devlin
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2018, 11:40:35 AM »
I think too much focus on this incident has been placed on the tug on Devlin's shirt before Devlin tugged Brophie's.

As I see it, the red was given because the ref deemed Devlin to be the last man.
The concern that the decision was upheld by the comittee, based on this part of the incident alone rather than the "was Shay Logan actually the last man" part is worrying.
The fact that we can see Logan in the picture and as a result could actually be deemed to be the last man, casts the decision of the ever incompetent egotistical Thomson into a grey area and would then put doubt on the decision to award a red card to Devlin.

I'm 100% certain that the club would have put forward both reasons in their argument. For me, the Brophy tug is more pertinent because in order for Devlin to be the last man Brophy required to foul him first. As per the quote above from the Morelos case: "The video footage shows an earlier barge on the Player that the Tribunal believe, had it been noted it would have been acted upon" it suggests that had McKenna been pulled up for the barge then the kick wouldn't even have happened. That, for me, sets the precedent here and we can simply take the panel's exact phrase and substitute Devlin: "The video footage shows an earlier tug on the Player that the Tribunal believe, had it been noted it would have been acted upon". That's how the club should have appealed the decision - using the panel's own wording to present Devlin's case, thus giving them little room for argument. 

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I do think that match officials have a hard job these days and at times are not all singing off the same hymn sheet due to all not being fully conversant with the letter of the law...........which is a sad indictment of the Scottish game and our lawyers and bankers officials.

I don't think that's entirely true (or at least I haven't seen evidence of it). I'm pretty certain the refs know the rules, they're just not interpreting them consistently, which isn't unusual. The punditry, media and ex-refs have not helped by not knowing the rules and I think is exacerbated by not allowing refs to explain decisions.

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As for the setup favouring the 2 favourite Glasgow clubs, it has always been thus.
No one can tell me that a referee or linesman ( I'm old school), isn't going to be influenced by 40 or 50 thousand Weegies ( or Irish if you prefer) calling for a penalty.

in my opinion, the beeks at the SFA are similarly influenced by the way too powerful voices at those two clubs, running scared of making decisions against them.
The rest of the other clubs are easy targets therefore.

We were warned by one of the esteemed members of the buyable SFA board that "football armageddon is coming".
This is just the start folks and the two colours that will be left standing are green and blue unless we do something now.

Agree about refs and crowd influence but do you think that folks on panels give a shite about the powerful voices? A bit like civil servants giving a shite about what politicians think I'd have thought? Totally agree with your conclusion though. I think we've locked ourselves in though.

Offline Barcosente

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Re: mikey devlin
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2018, 07:57:36 PM »
I'm also sure that the club would have put forward the double argument of Brophie tugging back Devlin before the latter incident.
The argument as being the same as the Morellos case is the same, but I don't think that the 2 panels would even have thought of the relevance, or even have coralted the two, such is the inconsistency alive and well within the decision makers of Scottish football.
I believe that they will have looked at this incident in isolation, rather than have looked at precedents such is the shortsightedness of this particular panel.
This is not a legal decision, but one of a panel who are anonymous and beyond reproach, unlike a jury.

As I see it, the match officials do not......using a well versed song from the stands "know what they are doing", which would be entirely down to there being a massive grey area of interpretation of the always changing rules of the game. In short they do not all know the laws of the game and therefore the ongoing repercussions that befall clubs during that match of thereafter.

While clubs might see themselves as " locked in" I don't think that supporters of "Provincial" clubs such as ours can afford this view. The clubs might be owned by money men but unless they operate in the English Premiership or the top 2 in Spain or Germany in fact could not function without the supporters paying at the turnstiles.how
If we want change, then the screws must be turned on the boards of our respective clubs to achieve this.

The boards of Aberdeen Football Club over the years have been complicit in allowing the status quo of the Glasgow clubs to have such a big day in how the game is run and by whom.
The other so called big clubs out with those 2 are just as complicit as ours.
What you sow, you shall reap.

Offline RicoS321

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Re: mikey devlin
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2018, 10:02:21 AM »
Not unexpected, but fans across the country are saying it is unacceptable that the club will be making no further comment. Dignified silence no longer works in Scottish football.

You have your wish:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45491684

Interestingly, it looks like the club have gone with the Logan covering appeal rather than the video evidence of the tug on the jersey. Frustratingly, the SFA have not updated their website with the actual panel's decision which is as much of a disgrace as the decision itself. We can't see what AFC have argued or the panel's thoughts on making the decision. To me, Logan covering is debatable and not indicative of a definite error by the ref (in my opinion it is, but it's not unarguable). The tug on Devlin is a foul that directly resulted in Devlin having to foul the player in return - it's completely unarguable given the video footage. Again, be interesting to read the text whenever the fuck it arrives (which should be on day one of the decision, at the press of a button).

Offline Barcosente

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Re: mikey devlin
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2018, 03:07:16 PM »
If the club have indeed gone with the Logan as last man defence I'd say there is a debate to be had among the guys/girls of the panel who viewed the evidence provided.

The brief they'd have been given would have been " was a clear goal scoring opportunity denied? "
Obviously, this was not a clear goalscoring opportunity, and no matter how many times I watch this back, Logan's presence in the build up and aftermath is debatable as to the outcome thereafter, so the panel either misunderstood what they were asked to look at, or do not understand the physics or laws of the game.

Of course the SFA are being as obtuse as ever and showing a lack of transparency that Maxwell promised he'd bring the game in Scotland.
That no explanation of the decision has been posted by now is a disgrace. Had it been one of the 2 Glasgow clubs, this would have been posted the minute any decision had been made.

There have been several of these decisions made by so called "expert" panels which have now seen the opposite outcome to what the majority of fans, experienced journals and ex players have expected to see.

We, the paying supporters deserve better from the powers that be, and until some sense and clarity about how these whacky decisions are arrived at, then each match increasingly becomes a lottery with no winner.

Offline KennyFuckinPowers

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Re: mikey devlin
« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2018, 05:27:16 PM »
Kilmarnock and manager Steve Clarke have been charged by the Scottish FA regarding comments made criticising the governing body's disciplinary process after Gary Dicker lost his red-card appeal.

More to follow.


Wow. This is what happens when you speak the truth. Can we expect McInnes to now face the same process? Perplexing.
It's a math class, the whole deal. Just like every math class, there's a clown in the front, and everybody hates this clown because he raises his hand, he's answering all the questions. What do we do? Move on. Just fucking move on, ready or not. He's deciding we got to move on, he knows his math, I hadn't even figured out about Santa Claus yet.

Offline Barcosente

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Re: mikey devlin
« Reply #45 on: September 13, 2018, 11:02:43 AM »
Kilmarnock and manager Steve Clarke have been charged by the Scottish FA regarding comments made criticising the governing body's disciplinary process after Gary Dicker lost his red-card appeal.

More to follow.


That's what you get when you have corrupt power crazy autocrats in charge of the game. No sense at all, yet we have gobshites like Gerrard and Rodgers saying what they want with not a card in the world.

Wow. This is what happens when you speak the truth. Can we expect McInnes to now face the same process? Perplexing.

Offline Barcosente

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Re: mikey devlin
« Reply #46 on: September 13, 2018, 11:34:57 AM »
And also this kind of confirming that match officials don't know the rules and therefore justifying the chants from the stands of "you don't know what your doing"

"Scotland's referees are seeking urgent clarification from football's international law makers over what constitutes a straight red card ahead of the return of the top-flight this weekend, with a video package believed to include incidents involving Rangers pair Alfredo Morelos and Allan McGregor as well as Hearts striker Steven Naismith being sent"

Nuff said

Offline Lencarl

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Re: mikey devlin
« Reply #47 on: September 13, 2018, 10:02:30 PM »
The Tribunal viewed the video footage of the incident, supplied by the Claimant, at different angles and in real time and in slow motion, and carefully considered the Claimant’s written submission. Having done so, the Tribunal found that the Kilmarnock No 25 was getting ahead of the Player, and was in control of the ball and heading towards the Claimant’s penalty area and goal when he was challenged by the Player. There were no other players on the field of play between the Kilmarnock FC No 25 and the Claimant’s goalkeeper. The Tribunal found that the Player’s contact with the Kilmarnock FC No 25 caused the latter to fall to the ground and prevented his progress with the ball towards the Claimant’s goal and therefore denied him an obvious goal scoring opportunity.  The Tribunal further found that the Referee was well positioned to see the challenge and make his decision. 


https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/4270/reasons-fast-track-tribunal-devlin-aberdeen-fc.pdf

What a pile of garbage. How can a player 40 yards from goal and Logan racing back to cover and Lewis to beat in goal be an obvious goal scoring opportunity No mention of any shirt pulling.


« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 10:07:01 PM by Lencarl »
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Offline RicoS321

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Re: mikey devlin
« Reply #48 on: September 14, 2018, 08:39:47 AM »
The Tribunal viewed the video footage of the incident, supplied by the Claimant, at different angles and in real time and in slow motion, and carefully considered the Claimant’s written submission. Having done so, the Tribunal found that the Kilmarnock No 25 was getting ahead of the Player, and was in control of the ball and heading towards the Claimant’s penalty area and goal when he was challenged by the Player. There were no other players on the field of play between the Kilmarnock FC No 25 and the Claimant’s goalkeeper. The Tribunal found that the Player’s contact with the Kilmarnock FC No 25 caused the latter to fall to the ground and prevented his progress with the ball towards the Claimant’s goal and therefore denied him an obvious goal scoring opportunity.  The Tribunal further found that the Referee was well positioned to see the challenge and make his decision. 


https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/4270/reasons-fast-track-tribunal-devlin-aberdeen-fc.pdf

What a pile of garbage. How can a player 40 yards from goal and Logan racing back to cover and Lewis to beat in goal be an obvious goal scoring opportunity No mention of any shirt pulling.

Bit in bold is the key here. Why did the club not go with this? It was incontrovertible. Obviously the fact that Logan was covering was clear and the distance to goal was a definite plus on our side, but just go with the easy undeniable facts - Liam McLeod even mentioned it in the BBC highlights to give us a hint. Be interesting to read our submission, but it seems that we've completely - and unforgiveably - overlooked a key part in the incident. I'm assuming the panel are only obliged to look at the case put forward by the club?

Offline Lencarl

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Re: mikey devlin
« Reply #49 on: September 14, 2018, 08:49:35 AM »
Bit in bold is the key here. Why did the club not go with this? It was incontrovertible. Obviously the fact that Logan was covering was clear and the distance to goal was a definite plus on our side, but just go with the easy undeniable facts - Liam McLeod even mentioned it in the BBC highlights to give us a hint. Be interesting to read our submission, but it seems that we've completely - and unforgiveably - overlooked a key part in the incident. I'm assuming the panel are only obliged to look at the case put forward by the club?

May be wrong, but I am sure Aberdeen sent them video evidence with Devlin's shirt pull to try and get the red overturned but was totally ignored by them.
NEVER plan ahead.

Offline RicoS321

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Re: mikey devlin
« Reply #50 on: September 14, 2018, 09:48:48 AM »
May be wrong, but I am sure Aberdeen sent them video evidence with Devlin's shirt pull to try and get the red overturned but was totally ignored by them.

So the SFA report is incomplete? That would be quite staggering if true, I'd be interested to hear the source of your info.

The video evidence is in the public domain, but it appears that the club is required to state their reasons for overturning and not just send a video and hope for an overturning i.e. if you don't highlight the shirt tug the panel don't look at it. To me, it looks like a very lax approach to the tribunal from the club, bordering on incompetence, but if the SFA are hiding information then that's a systemic/corruption issue.

Offline ayrshire_don74

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Re: mikey devlin
« Reply #51 on: September 14, 2018, 10:05:16 AM »
read what they said re morelos...
MR GRUMPY IS HERE

Offline Lencarl

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Re: mikey devlin
« Reply #52 on: September 14, 2018, 10:24:54 AM »
So the SFA report is incomplete? That would be quite staggering if true, I'd be interested to hear the source of your info.

The video evidence is in the public domain, but it appears that the club is required to state their reasons for overturning and not just send a video and hope for an overturning i.e. if you don't highlight the shirt tug the panel don't look at it. To me, it looks like a very lax approach to the tribunal from the club, bordering on incompetence, but if the SFA are hiding information then that's a systemic/corruption issue.

Dave Cormack on Twitter:
In the spirit of transparency, which there should be more of in football, we’ll wait to see the written explanation in the next few days. We produced crystal clear footage of Mikey’s shirt being pulled from 3 different angles at 3 different speeds. And with no retaliatory kick!

That looks to me that AFC sent the SFA the footage but was never mentioned in the appeal report.
NEVER plan ahead.

Offline Kowalski

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Re: mikey devlin
« Reply #53 on: September 14, 2018, 11:06:33 AM »

Offline Barcosente

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Re: mikey devlin
« Reply #54 on: September 14, 2018, 11:14:28 AM »
Like I've said before......The SFA are corrupt in decision making and it appears, capable of making a blatantly bad refereeing decision become right.

It's not the first, and definitely won't be the last that clubs suffer at the hands of these faceless buffoons that are making these idiotic decisions?
The incompetence is outstanding and defies belief.

Even Craig Gordon and Brenda Lodgers are questioning the validity of these so called "expert" panels.

Offline RicoS321

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Re: mikey devlin
« Reply #55 on: September 14, 2018, 11:36:45 AM »
Dave Cormack on Twitter:
In the spirit of transparency, which there should be more of in football, we’ll wait to see the written explanation in the next few days. We produced crystal clear footage of Mikey’s shirt being pulled from 3 different angles at 3 different speeds. And with no retaliatory kick!

That looks to me that AFC sent the SFA the footage but was never mentioned in the appeal report.

Good stuff, cheers. That's bordering on criminal negligence from the SFA. They've clearly and deliberately left out a critical piece of information in the report. Not only that, but they've chosen to highlight the Logan part of the argument as this element was one that was not clear cut and thus backed their argument not to rescind.

As I said from the start, the Morelos decision set the precedent for this when they used the fact that McKenna had barged the player as - in part - mitigation of his reaction. That can be seemlessly applied to the Devlin situation as we can take the shirt tug as mitigation for his having to bring down Brophy - it's an almost water-tight case.

It's good to see the club making a statement, but they need to be more hard-hitting and more detailed. It's too bland and not specific enough. There are clear breaches of protocol here if Cormack's tweet is a true account of what was said. The club needs to say that explicitly and in public. "We're not happy... " isn't good enough and it all it does it produce a media frenzy when we know that won't be followed up with detailed journalism and force the SFA into a specific response. The statement should be along the lines of "we submitted video evidence of a tug on the player.... the SFA tribunal chose not to accept this evidence, nor include it in its report, and instead based their decision on another - less explicit - part of the incident in order to come to a decision that backed its referee/employee". We need to give the journalists something very very specific to go on, cause they won't do it for themselves.

Offline Barcosente

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Re: mikey devlin
« Reply #56 on: September 14, 2018, 11:53:43 AM »
We'll probably find the lazy journos will make something up to cover their particular papers/channels agenda, so fear not on that front.

Like Rico says, the statement by the SFA borders on criminally negligent and ignores the full argument set forward clearly by AFC.

I wouldn't at all be surprised now if the Hammer throwers in charge of the madhouse SFA now fine the club for having the audacity to challenge them with the statement they just issued.

Offline RicoS321

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Re: mikey devlin
« Reply #57 on: September 14, 2018, 12:27:56 PM »
I wouldn't at all be surprised now if the Hammer throwers in charge of the madhouse SFA now fine the club for having the audacity to challenge them with the statement they just issued.

They will. We've given them the opportunity to with this:
The club maintains its view that the player was wrongfully dismissed, that the evidence presented was a robust defence and was overwhelmingly compelling in the player’s favour.

That doesn't back the SFA into a corner, it simply gives them - and the press - the option to put it down to a petulant/grumpy club appeasing its fans by playing the siege-mentality card.

What was the evidence presented? Why is it compelling? What were the previous specific examples that make it incontrovertible? What have the SFA miseed/ignored? Publicly out them so that they don't get a way out. Crucify them with evidence and force their hand. More importantly, give the journalists the ammunition to pelt them with because these guys won't go looking for it and for all our "they hate AFC" opinion, give them a free story and a person/organisation to focus their sights on and they'll go to town. Force that new SFA cunt to come on the radio and explain the SFA's process and make his life impossible.

Edit: to add, no way thon cunt Traynor would let an incident like this go for the hun. We need to do better. It's more than just PR here.

Offline tamzarian

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Re: mikey devlin
« Reply #58 on: September 14, 2018, 02:50:13 PM »
Stopping somebody playing in a couple of fitba matches isn't really a crime, is it?  Naebody died or was touched up or anything. 

Offline Barcosente

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Re: mikey devlin
« Reply #59 on: September 14, 2018, 04:48:16 PM »
Stopping somebody playing in a couple of fitba matches isn't really a crime, is it?  Naebody died or was touched up or anything.

Mikey Devlin might rightly be denied appearance money and a potential win/ and/or any other bonus as a result of this decision.

Might not be a crime in the true sense, but the decision has incorrectly cost Devlin and the club money.
Still a crime wrapped up in a misappropriated fashion by the SFA.