Author Topic: Scotland WC Qualifier squad analysis  (Read 466 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline OxfordDon

  • First Team Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 716
  • Rating: 50
  • Occupation: Pedant
Scotland WC Qualifier squad analysis
« on: June 25, 2018, 04:37:41 PM »
Following on from chat in the World Cup threat about comparing squads, and the difficulty of doing so for Scotland given we dinnae have a WC squad for some reason.

I had a wee bit of free time this afternoon, so, exciting individual that I am, I collated the Scotland squads used over the last WC qualifiers as a starting point for comparison instead (in the sun, with a beer, for half an hour, I hasten to add).  I then went away and did something more interesting that had nothing to do with football.

There were 42 callups in total across the 10 games, but we can narrow that down to a comparable 23-man squad on order of priority of squad callups > appearances > 1st team appearances > sub appearances, which gives us:

23-man WC Qualifier "squad"

PLAYER NAME      CALLUPS / PLAYED start (sub)
Craig Gordon      10   /  7 (0)
Christophe Berra   10   /  6 (0)
James Forrest      10   /  5 (2)
Chris Martin      10   /  3 (5)
Ikechi Anya      10   /  2 (5)
Andrew Robertson   9   /  8 (0)
Leigh Griffiths      9   /  7 (2)
Robert Snodgrass   9   /  6 (1)
Barry Bannan      9   /  5 (0)
James Morrison   9   /  4 (1)
Kieran Tierney      8   /  7 (0)
Darren Fletcher   8   /  6 (0)
James McArthur   8   /  4 (4)
Grant Hanley      8   /  4 (1)
Russell Martin      7   /  4 (0)
Matt Ritchie      7   /  3 (2)
John Mcginn      7   /  0 (2)
Charles Mulgrew   6   /  6 (0)
Steven Fletcher   6   /  1 (2)
Steven Naismith   6   /  0 (1)
Jack Hamilton   1   6   /  0 (0)
Scott Brown      5   /  5 (0)
David Marshall      5   /  3 (0)

19 further callups that didn't make the cut

Allan McGregor      5   /  0 (0)
Stuart Armstrong   4   /  4 (0)
Matthew Phillips   4   /  4 (0)
Callum Paterson   4   /  3 (1)
Ryan Fraser      4   /  0 (1)
Jordan Archer      4   /  0 (0)
Oliver Burke      3   /  2 (0)
Lee Wallace      3   /  1 (0)
Shaun Maloney   2   /  0 (0)
Tom Cairney      2   /  0 (0)
Steven Whittaker   2   /  0 (0)
Liam Cooper      2   /  0 (0)
Callum McGregor   2   /  0 (0)
Gordon Greer      1   /  0 (0)
Alan Hutton      1   /  0 (0)
Barrie Mckay      1   /  0 (0)
Stephen Kingsley   1   /  0 (0)
Jordan Rhodes      1   /  0 (0)
Mark Reynolds      1   /  0 (0)


The image below gives the data in chronological order - interesting to see how callups shifted (or didn't) across the games.

Onywye, feel free to use this as a starting point for comparing with the other nations.






Offline Slim

  • Star Striker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1867
  • Rating: -984
Re: Scotland WC Qualifier squad analysis
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2018, 05:38:14 PM »
Pornhub not working?

Offline OxfordDon

  • First Team Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 716
  • Rating: 50
  • Occupation: Pedant
Re: Scotland WC Qualifier squad analysis
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2018, 06:04:35 PM »
Yer ma's live cam was down

Offline tom_widdows

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 4557
  • Rating: 30
  • Miserable CĂșnt & Architectural Killjoy
Re: Scotland WC Qualifier squad analysis
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2018, 07:07:55 PM »
I dont think these stats make much headway in the 'why are scotland unable to qualify' discussion.

If you could say find a list(s) showing where those players fitted into the various scotland teams from schoolboy up to the first team, or as Bobby highlighted, those who were allowed to continue playing despite never developing a 'first touch' we might be onto something

I'm a man, and as a man I crave disappointment.

That's why I support Aberdeen Football Club & Scotland.

Offline OxfordDon

  • First Team Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 716
  • Rating: 50
  • Occupation: Pedant
Re: Scotland WC Qualifier squad analysis
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2018, 08:51:45 PM »
I dont think these stats make much headway in the 'why are scotland unable to qualify' discussion.

If you could say find a list(s) showing where those players fitted into the various scotland teams from schoolboy up to the first team, or as Bobby highlighted, those who were allowed to continue playing despite never developing a 'first touch' we might be onto something

They wouldn't by themselves.  They just pinpoint the regular players that contributed to our WC qualifying campaign, creating some basis for like-for-like comparison to the WC (or WC qualifying) squads of other countries, which was the root of the original thread.

Feel free to add detail that would illuminate such comparisons further, I found your points around origin of birth, player location, youth development very interesting.  :)


Offline baggy89

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 3033
  • Rating: 41
  • God forgives, I don't.
Re: Scotland WC Qualifier squad analysis
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2018, 01:33:42 PM »
I think it's a UK wide issue. Winning is the most important thing, from 6 years old on. Don't get me wrong winning is important but not at the expense of development.

Been coaching youth football for 7 years with a mixed team and 2.5 with a girls team.
I've never focused on just winning. Instead developing technique, decision making and not being afraid of making mistakes.

To be honest it's been fucking awful and utterly soul destroying at times. You take a player who has been ignored and left a club because they're tripping over their own feet, give them game time, decent coaching focusing on them as a player and they develop only for another team to say "come play for us, you'll win more", and off they go. I estimate I've lost 20-30 players in those seven years to more fashionable teams and they hoard the better players eliminating competition, often playing atrocious football. Players that you've coached to be all round players, at the back because they're tall thumping the ball long for the short fast kid to run on to. Playing alongside some other big lad who's been with them since he was 6 but still can't kick a ball straight.

I don't know what the answer is the EFA talk about coaches not being parents of a child on that team, but that I think is slightly unrealistic due to logistics. Although I understand why, as it reduces the risk of parents living vicariously through their children.

I quite like the model with girls football whereby we played festivals every second month until Under 11. Parents could watch but not comment, games were short so no demoralizing scorelines and coaches encouraged to only be positive. It's still competitive as I think on the whole the girls involved are way more determined and aggressive than the lads. Only thing is you've still got folk involved who go round trying to cherry pick the best players and doing mini-leagues in their head.

The only solution to that, that I can come up with is give clubs specific areas they can recruit players from. For clubs with more than one team per age group, give each team an area within their catchment area. There would need to be exceptions say a percentage per team can be outwith but league registration is only granted with a valid reason. That would force coaches to actually coach and work with what they have. Maybe even register with the league and they allocate you a team. Would stop all the A, B, C team nonsense.

Compulsory Youth Module for all coaches and Level 2 within first 3/4 years. This should be funded by Sky, BT and others profiting from football. Along with EPL clubs being made to fund building of one or two all weather facilities per season throughout the UK. Grass roots clubs apply from all over the country and they are drawn from a hat.

Sorry for rant but sort the grass roots out and the rest will follow, it's where everyone starts after-all.



Online RicoS321

  • Midfield Maestro
  • ****
  • Posts: 2762
  • Rating: 66
Re: Scotland WC Qualifier squad analysis
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2018, 02:11:35 PM »
Your ideas seem reasonable, however there is no such thing as "UK" football. Apart from that, all good!

Offline MDred

  • Under 19's
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • Rating: 2
Re: Scotland WC Qualifier squad analysis
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2018, 11:47:00 AM »
Good post Baggy, the game needs a massive overhaul from the ground up, a minimum 10 year plan.

Offline tom_widdows

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 4557
  • Rating: 30
  • Miserable CĂșnt & Architectural Killjoy
Re: Scotland WC Qualifier squad analysis
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2018, 02:40:43 PM »
I think it's a UK wide issue. Winning is the most important thing, from 6 years old on. Don't get me wrong winning is important but not at the expense of development.

Been coaching youth football for 7 years with a mixed team and 2.5 with a girls team.
I've never focused on just winning. Instead developing technique, decision making and not being afraid of making mistakes.

To be honest it's been fucking awful and utterly soul destroying at times. You take a player who has been ignored and left a club because they're tripping over their own feet, give them game time, decent coaching focusing on them as a player and they develop only for another team to say "come play for us, you'll win more", and off they go. I estimate I've lost 20-30 players in those seven years to more fashionable teams and they hoard the better players eliminating competition, often playing atrocious football. Players that you've coached to be all round players, at the back because they're tall thumping the ball long for the short fast kid to run on to. Playing alongside some other big lad who's been with them since he was 6 but still can't kick a ball straight.

I don't know what the answer is the EFA talk about coaches not being parents of a child on that team, but that I think is slightly unrealistic due to logistics. Although I understand why, as it reduces the risk of parents living vicariously through their children.

I quite like the model with girls football whereby we played festivals every second month until Under 11. Parents could watch but not comment, games were short so no demoralizing scorelines and coaches encouraged to only be positive. It's still competitive as I think on the whole the girls involved are way more determined and aggressive than the lads. Only thing is you've still got folk involved who go round trying to cherry pick the best players and doing mini-leagues in their head.

The only solution to that, that I can come up with is give clubs specific areas they can recruit players from. For clubs with more than one team per age group, give each team an area within their catchment area. There would need to be exceptions say a percentage per team can be outwith but league registration is only granted with a valid reason. That would force coaches to actually coach and work with what they have. Maybe even register with the league and they allocate you a team. Would stop all the A, B, C team nonsense.

Compulsory Youth Module for all coaches and Level 2 within first 3/4 years. This should be funded by Sky, BT and others profiting from football. Along with EPL clubs being made to fund building of one or two all weather facilities per season throughout the UK. Grass roots clubs apply from all over the country and they are drawn from a hat.

Sorry for rant but sort the grass roots out and the rest will follow, it's where everyone starts after-all.

Perhaps you could consider putting this into a formal letter/ email and send it to cockwomble and co?
I'm a man, and as a man I crave disappointment.

That's why I support Aberdeen Football Club & Scotland.