Author Topic: Brexit - Will it happen  (Read 11512 times)

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Offline Tyrant

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Re: Brexit - Will it happen
« Reply #140 on: May 30, 2019, 03:47:27 PM »
I voted remain but the country (UK) voted for Brexit and that is what I believe must happen in order to respect the result of the referendum. ( And it gives us a cast iron reason for demanding a new independence referendum....if brexit doesnt happen then we ourselves would have no choice but to repect the result of indyref, at least for a generation)

There are remoaners on both sides demading a peoples vote to break the deadlock. With at least 3 options...no deal brexit, brexit with a deal and remain..... Very shrewd tactic if you can't see through it. Split the brexit vote whist only having one remain option allowing it to win comfortably. They also use the excuse that "we did not know what we were voting for" as an excuse. As I said...I voted remain but there was a clear choice....remain or leave. No middle ground. Those who voted leave did so trusting the politicians to deliver and theyre reneging on that trust.

I remember as a young loon....1975 I think...my parents voting in a referendum in whether to stay in an expanding Common Market...henceforth European Union or whether to leave. There were no details as to what this new entity would be nor how it would achieve it's goals or whether further expansion would take place. it was "in" or "out". Obviously we stayed in.....no one then was bleating about the result a couple of years later demanding people's votes. The politicians delivered what they were instructed to do. Years later remember the Lisbon Treaty. Blair/Brown promised the people a referendum on signing up to it....then completely went back on their word and signed up to it anyway. Indoing so landing up with the pernicious Human Rights Treaty that any old arse with a grievance now uses to sue whenever he is short of a bob or 2. ANd creating a whole industry of new "phobias" into the bargain.

I generally loathe Farage. There aren't milkshake factories large enough to pump out the quantities of product I'd like to drown him in (why no custard pies anymore....comedy classic they were??). However the results last night give him the right to be kingmaker going forward. The people have spoken.


And as an aside......fuck the Tories and Labour. You got exactly what you deserved. Indeed Labour might well be a goner forever in Scotland now

I don't buy that. Not for a second. It's our democratic right to change our minds. I don't see how asking people to vote can possibly fly in the face of democracy. Especially when the deck was stacked from the beginning. Reminds me of a certain 2014 referendum which is also a dead cert to go ahead again due to said movement of political goalposts.


"Vote No to protect our place in the EU."  ::) :hammer:

Offline donsdaft

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Re: Brexit - Will it happen
« Reply #141 on: May 30, 2019, 05:40:39 PM »
Hitler was voted in .

The worst of the Tory fascists repeatedly say that people voted for the first time, they must be listened to.

Bollocks

They only voted for the first time because they are thick.
They are thick because you don’t believe in education for people with no money.
These people will vote to bring back public executions.

If you’re going to bring back killing people for the crowds pleasure then start with that bitch Teresa May

Offline Ten Caat

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Re: Brexit - Will it happen
« Reply #142 on: May 30, 2019, 06:40:17 PM »
I don't buy that. Not for a second. It's our democratic right to change our minds. I don't see how asking people to vote can possibly fly in the face of democracy. Especially when the deck was stacked from the beginning. Reminds me of a certain 2014 referendum which is also a dead cert to go ahead again due to said movement of political goalposts.


"Vote No to protect our place in the EU."  ::) :hammer:
I'd rather we left.....if we don't Brexiteers will forever claim the will of the people was disrespected. As you rightly point out about the Indyref, we were made a promise that could not be guaranteed thus giving us a cast iron reason to re-run Indyref. If Brexit is stopped in whatever manner, then that cast iron reason is lost.

Now (unless there's a no confidence vote that gets through Parliament quicker), what could/should happen is the pro European parties fight the next General Election on a "rejoin Europe" ticket. Brexit supporting parties on a "stay out" one. Saves the vast cost of another UK wide referendum (we of course may be Independent anyway by then)

Offline donsdaft

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Re: Brexit - Will it happen
« Reply #143 on: May 30, 2019, 08:11:24 PM »
If you're not a member of a club then you have to be allowed / invited back in.

Why the fuck would they want the English back in?

By that time it's all going to be wasteland.

Anyway, they would never get back in with the deal they have now.

Not that it wouldn't be funny watching them grovel, because it would.

English fascist bastards

Offline tom_widdows

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Re: Brexit - Will it happen
« Reply #144 on: May 30, 2019, 09:29:10 PM »
Quote
I remember as a young loon....1975 I think...my parents voting in a referendum in whether to stay in an expanding Common Market...henceforth European Union or whether to leave. There were no details as to what this new entity would be nor how it would achieve it's goals or whether further expansion would take place. it was "in" or "out". Obviously we stayed in.....no one then was bleating about the result a couple of years later demanding people's votes. The politicians delivered what they were instructed to do. Years later remember the Lisbon Treaty. Blair/Brown promised the people a referendum on signing up to it....then completely went back on their word and signed up to it anyway. Indoing so landing up with the pernicious Human Rights Treaty that any old arse with a grievance now uses to sue whenever he is short of a bob or 2. ANd creating a whole industry of new "phobias" into the bargain.

I don't think you can use the 1975 referendum as comparitive example to the 2016 one.
This was before my time but as I understand it, in the 1970s the UK still had the following industries
- Coal
- Steel
- Shipbuilding
- Car manufacture
and had just discovered that lovely blackstuff that is killing the planet (Pollution & wars).

The internet only existed in science labs & military bases
Air travel was still for the rich.

If you had a business in the UK I suspect the majority of your work/ product sales were in a relatively local area. The idea of say an Aberdeen builder buying building materials from a supplier in Plymouth may have been considered madness. Saying you could buy it from outside the UK would may have seen you sectioned.

Having only been involved in the common market for 3 years I don't imagine there had been a dramatic change in  UK society so had the country voted to leave the impact would have been fairly minimal.

Fast forward 40 years

Air travel is cheap
Smart technology and the internet potentially allows someone in Scotland to run a business in Tanzania without having to leave the country
UK fishermen sell hugh proportion of their catch to the Spanish etc
The only car industry is niche poser sports cars
There are only about 3 shipyards left and they are fighting to stop being mothballed
No coal industry
Oil & gas is on the decline yet the UK not following the Norwegian model relies in imports from the continent to keep the nations heating on
The farmers have been fucked over so much by power hungry supermarkets and politicians stabbing them in the back they ended up selling their land to developers so the UK imports a substantial amount of its food. Any farmers left more often than not rely on the subsidies and workforce they get from the EU
The last remaining steelworks is owned by an Indian company and should they decide its not worth the hassle the UK building industry will be solely reliant in imports from the continet
The NHS relies so much on foreign workers because by some miracle we have managed to keep it a secret that our health service is crumbling and the staff are underpaid and treated like shit.
Our education system also now heavily relies on foreign teachers however word now seems to be spreading abroad that as with the health service you will get treated like shit and want to slit your wrists with the stress.

The skills shortage list for the UK is scary. Everyone seems to be going to Uni but no one seems to have any skills

In short our entire 'union' is intertwined with the EU and to suddenly just pull the plug on that the way they the tories are threatening is terrorism as far as I am concerned.

But because little england got its feelings hurt when it marched up to the the EU gang and said ' give me special treatment or I'm taking my ball and going home' only to find the EU had better balls and a stadium to play in, the posh minted wankers started the whole imperialism agenda and took advantage of millions of people in their constituencies who most of the time they would rather didnt exist painting this picture that everything wrong with the UK was the EU's fault. Nothing to do with successive governments cutting taxes, selling off assets to their cronies or just burning whatever cash they have to keep the fire going.

I'm getting fed up hearing the reteric ' we will take back control of our schools, health service, transport etc etc' but when asked 'what EU laws are actually stopping the UK from improving these things' they either change the subject, accuse the interviewer of being part of the 'elite', or even admit they havent researched any of the claims they just made.

Some say many voted for brexit because they had nothing to lose ie their life is so shit it couldn't get any worse so they may as well vote for a 'change'
I wonder how many of these people jumped on the Conservative bandwagon following the demise of the blairites and then blamed the Lib dems for how shit things suddenly got from them?
If the think life is shit now wait until the toffs in power get their wish and rip up workers rights charters, health & safety policy and replace all benefits with tax credits but only if you have a knighthood or went to a private school

I'll happily put up with brexiteers bitching and moaning should it be cancelled same as I put up with people bitching and moaning we no longer execute our citizens (watch that one come swinging back should a no deal brexit happen).

Funny how EIRE was once supposedly the restrictive cousin to the UK (possibly down to the amount of control the churches had) and yet within the EU they seem to be turing into a freedom loving eutopia (except for the northern bit the brits stole).
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 11:36:07 PM by tom_widdows »
I'm a man, and as a man I crave disappointment.

That's why I support Aberdeen Football Club & Scotland.

21 (YES TWENTY FUCKING ONE) year old Cosgrove to show what he can do when he is finally given a real chance.

Offline Tyrant

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Re: Brexit - Will it happen
« Reply #145 on: May 31, 2019, 08:00:29 AM »
I'd rather we left.....if we don't Brexiteers will forever claim the will of the people was disrespected. As you rightly point out about the Indyref, we were made a promise that could not be guaranteed thus giving us a cast iron reason to re-run Indyref. If Brexit is stopped in whatever manner, then that cast iron reason is lost.

Now (unless there's a no confidence vote that gets through Parliament quicker), what could/should happen is the pro European parties fight the next General Election on a "rejoin Europe" ticket. Brexit supporting parties on a "stay out" one. Saves the vast cost of another UK wide referendum (we of course may be Independent anyway by then)


Nae if a new (or "people's") vote has an entirely different outcome. Which I think it would.

Offline Tyrant

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Re: Brexit - Will it happen
« Reply #146 on: May 31, 2019, 08:08:43 AM »
I don't think you can use the 1975 referendum as comparitive example to the 2016 one.
This was before my time but as I understand it, in the 1970s the UK still had the following industries
- Coal
- Steel
- Shipbuilding
- Car manufacture
and had just discovered that lovely blackstuff that is killing the planet (Pollution & wars).

The internet only existed in science labs & military bases
Air travel was still for the rich.

If you had a business in the UK I suspect the majority of your work/ product sales were in a relatively local area. The idea of say an Aberdeen builder buying building materials from a supplier in Plymouth may have been considered madness. Saying you could buy it from outside the UK would may have seen you sectioned.

Having only been involved in the common market for 3 years I don't imagine there had been a dramatic change in  UK society so had the country voted to leave the impact would have been fairly minimal.

Fast forward 40 years

Air travel is cheap
Smart technology and the internet potentially allows someone in Scotland to run a business in Tanzania without having to leave the country
UK fishermen sell hugh proportion of their catch to the Spanish etc
The only car industry is niche poser sports cars
There are only about 3 shipyards left and they are fighting to stop being mothballed
No coal industry
Oil & gas is on the decline yet the UK not following the Norwegian model relies in imports from the continent to keep the nations heating on
The farmers have been fucked over so much by power hungry supermarkets and politicians stabbing them in the back they ended up selling their land to developers so the UK imports a substantial amount of its food. Any farmers left more often than not rely on the subsidies and workforce they get from the EU
The last remaining steelworks is owned by an Indian company and should they decide its not worth the hassle the UK building industry will be solely reliant in imports from the continet
The NHS relies so much on foreign workers because by some miracle we have managed to keep it a secret that our health service is crumbling and the staff are underpaid and treated like shit.
Our education system also now heavily relies on foreign teachers however word now seems to be spreading abroad that as with the health service you will get treated like shit and want to slit your wrists with the stress.

The skills shortage list for the UK is scary. Everyone seems to be going to Uni but no one seems to have any skills

In short our entire 'union' is intertwined with the EU and to suddenly just pull the plug on that the way they the tories are threatening is terrorism as far as I am concerned.

But because little england got its feelings hurt when it marched up to the the EU gang and said ' give me special treatment or I'm taking my ball and going home' only to find the EU had better balls and a stadium to play in, the posh minted wankers started the whole imperialism agenda and took advantage of millions of people in their constituencies who most of the time they would rather didnt exist painting this picture that everything wrong with the UK was the EU's fault. Nothing to do with successive governments cutting taxes, selling off assets to their cronies or just burning whatever cash they have to keep the fire going.

I'm getting fed up hearing the reteric ' we will take back control of our schools, health service, transport etc etc' but when asked 'what EU laws are actually stopping the UK from improving these things' they either change the subject, accuse the interviewer of being part of the 'elite', or even admit they havent researched any of the claims they just made.

Some say many voted for brexit because they had nothing to lose ie their life is so shit it couldn't get any worse so they may as well vote for a 'change'
I wonder how many of these people jumped on the Conservative bandwagon following the demise of the blairites and then blamed the Lib dems for how shit things suddenly got from them?
If the think life is shit now wait until the toffs in power get their wish and rip up workers rights charters, health & safety policy and replace all benefits with tax credits but only if you have a knighthood or went to a private school

I'll happily put up with brexiteers bitching and moaning should it be cancelled same as I put up with people bitching and moaning we no longer execute our citizens (watch that one come swinging back should a no deal brexit happen).

Funny how EIRE was once supposedly the restrictive cousin to the UK (possibly down to the amount of control the churches had) and yet within the EU they seem to be turing into a freedom loving eutopia (except for the northern bit the brits stole).

Superb post. Easiest Simmie I've ever dished oot. 

Offline hebrew

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Re: Brexit - Will it happen
« Reply #147 on: May 31, 2019, 01:47:13 PM »
Superb post. Easiest Simmie I've ever dished oot.
Ha me too  ;D

Offline donsdaft

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Re: Brexit - Will it happen
« Reply #148 on: May 31, 2019, 04:35:28 PM »

The skills shortage list for the UK is scary. Everyone seems to be going to Uni but no one seems to have any skills



Now that’s a question needs answering.

Great post


Offline donsdaft

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Re: Brexit - Will it happen
« Reply #149 on: May 31, 2019, 04:40:11 PM »
Girl I know who’s a florist was talking about the course she did at college.
Of course I was taking the piss about going to college to learn how to plonk flooers in a vase.

She’s a good quine ( and a bloody good florist) so she took the ribbing in good spirit.

She did however tell me about the class next door, folk walking about with hamsters in cages etc.

The course?
Pet management

Offline RicoS321

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Re: Brexit - Will it happen
« Reply #150 on: June 03, 2019, 11:24:32 AM »
The skills shortage list for the UK is scary. Everyone seems to be going to Uni but no one seems to have any skills



Now that’s a question needs answering.

Great post

Skills for what? All our shite is made in China, and most of that shite we don't need. What is it that we are missing (or is needed) in this country for which there is a skill shortage? Doctors perhaps? I certainly have had zero problems in getting tradesmen or mechanicing services; almost always a British person. What are the actual requirements in terms of skilled worker these days? It's certainly massively reduced. For example, if I'm making Ikea(esque) furniture for retail, then I don't need an army of joiners, I just need labourers to move shite from one CNC machine to the next and one skilled CNC contractor/consultant. If my electric car stops working, then I plug it into a computer to tell me it's fucked. Does anyone get their washing machine repaired or do they just buy a new one? If there is a skills vacuum then it's because there isn't a requirement for the skill. Beyond the hyper-specialist type roles that you mention, or the shifting of money from one account to another in the sudo-gambling financial industry, what are we missing? The EU is a globalist, expansionist organisation by design. It operates on the retarded constitutional surplus model. It is within that model that we've been afforded the opportunity to water down our skillset. For me, it doesn't really hold water that by staying in the EU we will rely less on imported skills, which seems to be what you're arguing for (or complaining about the lack of)? In fact, the overwhelming evidence - and the EU's trade, economic and monetary policy requirement and design - suggests that we will become less and less skilled. Surely a benefit, in your terms, to leaving the EU would be that it could force the UK to learn to feed/clothe/produce themselves (I don't think it would, but that's not the point, the point is that the status quo most certainly doesn't)?

Offline rocket_scientist

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Re: Brexit - Will it happen
« Reply #151 on: June 03, 2019, 11:52:17 AM »
Good post Rico but it will be misinterpreted, skewed and selectively ignored.

Because it doesn't fit their argument.

The reality being that they have no argument.

Because they either can't see reality or they choose not to want to see it.

The war criminal Blair champions their cause. As does his sidekick, the shortest reigning PM. As did the second shortest time in office PM, before she was forced to implement the will of the people, holding on deliberately until now to resign only to exceed Brown's days in office. Her predecessor, the Cameron cunt was also a big remainer and so arrogant and misguided he never anticipated the referendum result let alone the ensuing mess.

We aren't so stupid to argue that the British people knew what they were doing when they voted. It was a fate of accident that they came to the right decision. We know that thick shit racists swelled the Leave votes. We know that the young and foolish voted Remain.

In his most recent rallying cry, Blair was right about one thing and one thing only. The world has changed in the last 40 years. But the change has been for the benefit of him and his class and to the detriment of the people, of all people, not just in Europe but throughout the globe.

It's not just the last 40 years. The true agenda of "the owners" (as George Carlin calls them) has been pursued since WW1, when financiers exploited chaos to impose a system that benefits only themselves. The EU is a product of that agenda and it costs an extraordinary amount of money that the people can't afford. Whether it was £350m a week or £225m a week is not the point. The £50bn divorce settlement is the point. How can that be justified by any reasonable party? It's a "deal" that only a losing party in a war would accept and May wanted us to accept it, even though she (and they) didn't want us to leave at all.

The media of course are puppets to their masters and they have engineered massive division amongst the people. Divide and conquer, it was ever thus. Facilitated by gross ignorance and an incapacity for critical thinking, also engineered by an education system designed to dumb down.

It's all fucked and it needs change. Power to the people is the only way to change it. The power presently lies way beyond Westminster. Our Theresa's are just pawns in their game.
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Offline rocket_scientist

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Re: Brexit - Will it happen
« Reply #152 on: June 03, 2019, 12:21:39 PM »
Did any of you miss the investigative journalists asking how much the EU get from member nations? And what happens to these BILLIONS of pounds each week? So did I.
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Offline donsdaft

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Re: Brexit - Will it happen
« Reply #153 on: June 03, 2019, 05:31:12 PM »
Bollocks Rico min

Just tell me how our English fascist friends are going to wage their next inevitable war, backs to the wall, dig for victory, when they haven’t got a steel industry.

Offline Kowalski

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Re: Brexit - Will it happen
« Reply #154 on: June 03, 2019, 08:12:23 PM »
As does his sidekick, the shortest reigning PM. As did the second shortest time in office PM

An incredible effort considering they are both dead.

Offline RicoS321

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Re: Brexit - Will it happen
« Reply #155 on: June 03, 2019, 09:05:02 PM »
Bollocks Rico min

Just tell me how our English fascist friends are going to wage their next inevitable war, backs to the wall, dig for victory, when they haven’t got a steel industry.

That doesn't really make sense as an answer to the questions I asked.

We've barely got a steel industry as part of the EU and it's heading in one direction. Do you believe that remaining in the EU would improve our chances of growing our steel industry? If so, why has the opposite occurred?

Offline Elgindon

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Re: Brexit - Will it happen
« Reply #156 on: June 03, 2019, 09:45:29 PM »

 Nae sure if I posted this clip at Brexit time,but this guys worth a listen 

Offline tom_widdows

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Re: Brexit - Will it happen
« Reply #157 on: June 03, 2019, 09:56:28 PM »
That doesn't really make sense as an answer to the questions I asked.

We've barely got a steel industry as part of the EU and it's heading in one direction. Do you believe that remaining in the EU would improve our chances of growing our steel industry? If so, why has the opposite occurred?

The opposite occured (as I see it) thanks to the wonderful attitude of the 1980s conservative government who rather than open up to the eu and world markets at the same time as backing the UK infrastructure to be competitive and aspire to be the best in the world, they turned their back on them in favour of imports.
Some industries they just shut down completely whilst others they sold off into private hands which decades later found their way into the hands of companies from other countries - USA, India, France, China and so on.
The red tories under blair continued this pattern as did condom head and maybot.

A few weeks ago one of the tory lot suggested the way the UK will prosper from a no deal brexit and get lots of trade deals is to completely remove any tarriffs on imports stating 'the british deserved the best and cheapest products in the world'. His vision was the other nations would return the favour and remove all tarrifs on UK exports which would restart the UK as a manufacturing world power.
The presenter asked how something can be both 'best' & 'cheapest which lead to the tory footsolider just repeating his statement about britain deserving the best and cheapedt- the tactic used by politicians when they haven't thought something through.
The next question was how feasible would it be for UK based companies to compete if one of the major things in their favour (tarrifs/ taxes on foreign imports) was removed. Once again he responded with the best and cheapest line.

When british steel went to the wall the other week some tories and brexiteers quickly turned this on the EU suggesting because of their state aid rules british steel could not be bailed out by the UK tax payer but it would be different in a no deal brexit. The world trade organisation has similar rules on state aid and no country in their right mind would sign a trade deal with the UK without similar rules, after all how can 'private' business compete against a business who are automatically favoured by your trading partner's government.

When the aim of the government is to sell everything into private hands (the hands of their cronies) at the same time as ensuring said cronies pay little or nothing in taxes to fund the country's infrastructure/ society you find yourself in the modern UK.
The government sells tax cuts for the lowest paid as 'rewards for hard working families' when in essense these familes only end up with about £200 a year extra in their pockets but find their local bus services reduced but the fares increased, their kids school has lost a teacher, their bin collections are monthly, child care allowance cut, the local hospital has closed a department and so on, but thats ok because now you can go out and spend that extra £200 to make the country great again.

I would not have as big a problem with leaving the EU if the fuckwits who got us into this situation and proposed it say 15-20 years ago and had spent the best part of a decade planning how the UK could unravel itself from the various rules, regulations and laws relatively smoothley, and then put it the electorate.

Instead we got the kids playground
I'm a man, and as a man I crave disappointment.

That's why I support Aberdeen Football Club & Scotland.

21 (YES TWENTY FUCKING ONE) year old Cosgrove to show what he can do when he is finally given a real chance.

Offline RicoS321

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Re: Brexit - Will it happen
« Reply #158 on: June 03, 2019, 10:46:50 PM »
Yep, I'm quite familiar with the story. I just don't perceive the EU to be any different than, let's say, the Blair government. Austerity is an EU project. Their surplus requirements constitutionally promoting that - something that should be decided democractically invoked in law to avoid being subjected to democracy. I'm in complete agreement that the Tory version of brexit (i.e. the only one on the table) is horrific. The only question for me is one that I can't answer. Given that we know that the EU is essentially a globalist, neo-liberal project of slightly less greed and ugliness than the UK (look at their fire-sale of Greece) that has almost zero chance of reform, do we kick the can down the road, or do we ditch the EU and hope for either independence or that the Torys implode and leave something better behind? The choice is fairly shite.

I would not have as big a problem with leaving the EU if the fuckwits who got us into this situation and proposed it say 15-20 years ago and had spent the best part of a decade planning how the UK could unravel itself from the various rules, regulations and laws relatively smoothley, and then put it the electorate.

Instead we got the kids playground

That's about the crux of it for me like. Apart from putting it to the electorate. It should just form part of a party manifesto. We don't need referendums for constitutional arrangements. The tory cunts should have had it on their 2015 manifesto: "We will be banning foreigners, and in order to do so we will be leaving the EU - vote for us ye dicks". A referendum about EU membership is just fucking bizarre.

Offline rocket_scientist

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Re: Brexit - Will it happen
« Reply #159 on: June 03, 2019, 11:16:18 PM »
Nae sure if I posted this clip at Brexit time,but this guys worth a listen 

I think you did or at least I was aware of his views previously. What I wasn't aware of, as someone who studied public international law almost 40 years ago (a mandatory subject within the degree course at Aberdeen University) was the extent to which the ECJ openly and brazenly flouts and disregards the principles which have been generally accepted worldwide. Brilliant find and a conclusive case for exit.
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