Author Topic: Managers in Scotland  (Read 65069 times)

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Offline Ten Caat

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Re: Managers in Scotland
« Reply #540 on: February 26, 2019, 10:18:31 AM »
I honestly thought that Celtic would insist on him seeing the season out and let him leave in the summer with Leicester in no real danger of the drop, putting in a caretaker till then.

Obviously he will at least double his wages down there, possibly even treble and have a transfer budget he could only dream about compared to up here. He will back his ability to do what Ranieri did but let's face it, that was a freak end result where the football gods all aligned in a once-in-a-generation happening. Mid table mediocrity is all they can expect, however long he signs his contract for, unless he lands them a Cup during his tenure I doubt he will receive a contract extension and if he cocks up his transfer business could even be out the door as soon as next summer.

Popcorn teeth was the obvious replacement and although he could never be described as an intellectual, he will certainly have enough in his locker to keep 10IAR on track. However this has presented a great opportunity for Hibs to turn them over in the Cup at the weekend whilst the upheaval is still settling down.

Offline RicoS321

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Re: Managers in Scotland
« Reply #541 on: February 26, 2019, 11:21:37 AM »
This whole thing further shows how small we are as a football nation and how money has corrupted the game. Lennon good enough for Celtic but not good enough for AFC according to many of our fans? Bizarre. He's three times the man McInnes is.

He just got thrown out of Hibs for being a dick. In other words, it's not just AFC fans, it's professionals employed by what seems to be a well-run club. If Lennon is employed by Celtic, it will likely be as caretaker because he's out of a job. He was paid off/let go the last time he was at the club, and was clearly never trusted with a budget (players bought in for him etc), so he's clearly not deemed good enough. He's a decent manager, about the same level as McInnes. Good at motivating players for the big games, without any real success (2 wins in 11 vs the Tims), whilst unable to get a level of consistency against the other 7-8 teams that make up the league. I find it bizzare that you/anyone holds him in such ridiculously high regard. Like McInnes would, he'll easily return the league (and probably cup) to the Tims if he goes there, but the differences between the two are minimal - just a matter of style.

Offline rocket_scientist

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Re: Managers in Scotland
« Reply #542 on: February 26, 2019, 11:36:59 AM »
I don't necessarily hold Lennon in such high regard at all. I just hold McInnes in very low regard, unlike the vast majority of AFC fans.

There's a law in nature called survival of the fittest. The English invented a feudal system to counter this but the leaders of men were always the strongest and smartest, positions earned by superior performance ability rather than inheritance. If we put Lennon and McInnes into a room, Lennon wouldn't need 10 seconds to show who's the real man between them. Oh I'm sorry, we are not allowed to fight any more. We have to give the weak their rights. Physical confrontation is discouraged, it's no measure of anything. For all his many faults, I far prefer my leaders to have fight and passion and charlatan midget losers like McInnes are never going to cut it... if cutting it means winning the title, which it doesn't at AFC under Milne, fans expectations having gone full circle in 20 years.
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Offline Ten Caat

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Re: Managers in Scotland
« Reply #543 on: February 26, 2019, 11:41:54 AM »
Our greatest ever manager was thrown out of St Mirren for being a dick......and he continued being a dick for the next 36 or so years

I could easily live with a dick as manager of he brought in a trophy or 2 along the way. I'd put Hibs' relative success against the OF but inconsistency against lower clubs down to them having a reasonably talented squad who on a good day are very good....and the Old Firm, Celtic especially, tend to rest a few players against them. On a bad day they're bang average, occasionally embarrassingly bad.

Any chance of him replacing DM has sailed now. He will have a job at the Dhims long as he likes as long as the League championships keep rolling in....won't even be expected to continue winning Cups although they'll still win probably 2 out of every 3. He will only leave if an English club comes calling....which no doubt one will eventually. Probably not an EPL level one but a Birmingham or similar who will still outpay what Celtic will ( he will get nowhere near the contract that Brenda was on....the Old biscuit tin now has hinges and diamantes glued to the lid but a biscuit tin it remains).

Offline rocket_scientist

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Re: Managers in Scotland
« Reply #544 on: February 26, 2019, 11:47:02 AM »
I agree Lennon for AFC isn't a starter. It never was. It's his affiliation with Celtic in the past that puts him in the frame for the present. My only point was that he's more of a man than our cunt manager, who committed so little to AFC he didn't consider the NE good enough to relocate his family to, preferring to steep them in the same sectarian poison that Steve Clarke was so grateful that his children avoided.
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Offline RicoS321

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Re: Managers in Scotland
« Reply #545 on: February 26, 2019, 12:29:33 PM »
I agree Lennon for AFC isn't a starter. It never was. It's his affiliation with Celtic in the past that puts him in the frame for the present. My only point was that he's more of a man than our cunt manager, who committed so little to AFC he didn't consider the NE good enough to relocate his family to, preferring to steep them in the same sectarian poison that Steve Clarke was so grateful that his children avoided.

Maybe he just considered his family? Enough of a man to take into account their well-being before his own if they were happiest where they were? Enough of a man to not need his family around him whilst doing his job (I don't think that's a good trait as such)?

I've no idea of course, but I doubt you do either, and it's a strange thing to focus on. I don't know if he has kids at school or whatever. I don't know if there is any evidence that his family being in location would improve his performance or if it has had a negative one and, again, I doubt you do. I don't know if Neil Lennon moved his family to Edinburgh, or to Bolton either and nor do I think you do - without subsequently looking it up.

I understand your dislike of McInnes, I just don't understand how it spills over into various points that seem to have no bearing on that and how it relates to Lennon's qualification as a manager. In other words, can we nae just look objectively at their records, rather than non-quantifiable/malleable bullshit like "how much of a man" someone is? I could easily argue that Lennon is a weak as piss whiney fuck who does his talking in the press and fucks off at the first moment things become difficult for him using every excuse under the sun apart from looking at his own failings. I have no idea if that is the case though, but it's a turn of phrase that could easily be made to fit. I've never seen either manager with their players, nor what they say to them behind the scenes.

Offline rocket_scientist

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Re: Managers in Scotland
« Reply #546 on: February 26, 2019, 12:55:14 PM »
If a manager seeks to use AFC as a stepping stone to somewhere else then of course he's not going to relocate his family. Billy McNeill relocated his family to the NE and they loved all it up here. It's a question of commitment. The manager Milne loves doesn't love us and he's not fucking good enough for AFC, let alone wherever his ego thinks he'll go.
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Offline RicoS321

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Re: Managers in Scotland
« Reply #547 on: February 26, 2019, 02:46:38 PM »
If a manager seeks to use AFC as a stepping stone to somewhere else then of course he's not going to relocate his family. Billy McNeill relocated his family to the NE and they loved all it up here. It's a question of commitment. The manager Milne loves doesn't love us and he's not fucking good enough for AFC, let alone wherever his ego thinks he'll go.

It's nae 1970. No man should force his family to live somewhere they don't want to. I don't know if that's the case (that they don't want to move), nor do I care, but you don't either. 

But I still don't get it. You suggest the McInnes is a loser. You also suggest that he's using AFC as a stepping stone. In other words, he backs himself. He might be a loser, but he certainly doesn't believe that. He clearly has belief in himself, misplaced or otherwise. Yet still, he turned down two decent opportunities in order to stay with the dons, despite both equally as easy to get to from Glasgow (is that where is family is?), which suggests commitment. But even if he wasn't committed, so what? Was Ferguson committed to a career at AFC or was it a stepping stone? Lennon at Hibs? McInnes has shown a commitment when he's been here, he's changed the entire structure of the club and pushed hard for training facilities and even that wanky new stadium. That's more than Lennon even attempted to start at Hibs before getting himself the boot.

There are plenty of valid arguments for criticising McInnes, you just seem to be grasping at stuff that has little evidence. I'm not criticising, just find it interesting. It's like you hate McInnes that much you've become irrational!

Offline rocket_scientist

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Re: Managers in Scotland
« Reply #548 on: February 26, 2019, 03:27:09 PM »
It's nae 1970. No man should force his family to live somewhere they don't want to. I don't know if that's the case (that they don't want to move), nor do I care, but you don't either. 

But I still don't get it. You suggest the McInnes is a loser. You also suggest that he's using AFC as a stepping stone. In other words, he backs himself. He might be a loser, but he certainly doesn't believe that. He clearly has belief in himself, misplaced or otherwise. Yet still, he turned down two decent opportunities in order to stay with the dons, despite both equally as easy to get to from Glasgow (is that where is family is?), which suggests commitment. But even if he wasn't committed, so what? Was Ferguson committed to a career at AFC or was it a stepping stone? Lennon at Hibs? McInnes has shown a commitment when he's been here, he's changed the entire structure of the club and pushed hard for training facilities and even that wanky new stadium. That's more than Lennon even attempted to start at Hibs before getting himself the boot.

There are plenty of valid arguments for criticising McInnes, you just seem to be grasping at stuff that has little evidence. I'm not criticising, just find it interesting. It's like you hate McInnes that much you've become irrational!

What a cheek! Grasping at stuff? You're the one who provoked an argument. Obviously when I was saying that Lennon is three times the man McInnes will ever be, there was going to be a reaction. The point you didn't get is that Lennon has qualities that McInnes will never have, qualities that are unique to winning mentalities and never appear in losers. I could've anticipated that you AFC fans would take objection to the reality that McInnes isn't as good as you all think but you have the chairman firmly in your camp so you all must be right.

I don't live in a fucking bubble. I drink in bars full of AFC before and after games. Most of my mates are AFC. I know you're all happy with the coming second trophy and I know that you don't even aspire to win the league (which is why I said expectations have gone full circle) but surely I'm allowed to have an opinion, even if it differs from yours and the majority of AFC fans?

There was a massive outcry when we were debating managers and someone suggested Lennon. I backed up this view without ever thinking that would ever happen. I think Lennon's combative qualities are exactly what's missing in the midget that is McInnes and I know this hurts, the truth always does. Then, as the debate unfolded I pointed out that he's never committed his long-term future to us and has always seen us as a stepping stone to a bigger wage-packet, because in my opinion, that's the only thing that matters to him. I don't blame him for being human in this regard, I just happen to think that he's a charlatan, he's not good enough manager for us if we ever wanted to win the league but as it's not the agenda of the club and the fans, crack on and clap happily.

The only two points I made were that Lennon has stuff - as a man - sadly lacking in McInnes, who has never seen us as long-term.

Disagree with that all you like but don't tell me I'm grasping at shit. I've always thought this.


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Offline RicoS321

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Re: Managers in Scotland
« Reply #549 on: February 26, 2019, 05:01:45 PM »
What a cheek! Grasping at stuff? You're the one who provoked an argument. Obviously when I was saying that Lennon is three times the man McInnes will ever be, there was going to be a reaction. The point you didn't get is that Lennon has qualities that McInnes will never have, qualities that are unique to winning mentalities and never appear in losers. I could've anticipated that you AFC fans would take objection to the reality that McInnes isn't as good as you all think but you have the chairman firmly in your camp so you all must be right.

I don't live in a fucking bubble. I drink in bars full of AFC before and after games. Most of my mates are AFC. I know you're all happy with the coming second trophy and I know that you don't even aspire to win the league (which is why I said expectations have gone full circle) but surely I'm allowed to have an opinion, even if it differs from yours and the majority of AFC fans?

There was a massive outcry when we were debating managers and someone suggested Lennon. I backed up this view without ever thinking that would ever happen. I think Lennon's combative qualities are exactly what's missing in the midget that is McInnes and I know this hurts, the truth always does. Then, as the debate unfolded I pointed out that he's never committed his long-term future to us and has always seen us as a stepping stone to a bigger wage-packet, because in my opinion, that's the only thing that matters to him. I don't blame him for being human in this regard, I just happen to think that he's a charlatan, he's not good enough manager for us if we ever wanted to win the league but as it's not the agenda of the club and the fans, crack on and clap happily.

The only two points I made were that Lennon has stuff - as a man - sadly lacking in McInnes, who has never seen us as long-term.

Disagree with that all you like but don't tell me I'm grasping at shit. I've always thought this.

You're changing the subject, I clearly replied to - and quoted - the bit where you said he lacked commitment. You're grasping at the fact that McInnes hasn't moved here as a sign of his lack of commitment is what I was saying (that particular point, not your other stuff). That's not harsh, cheeky or anything else. If you're not grasping, then you're not putting your argument forward correctly because it appears - to me, anyway - that you're grasping at it. The reason I'm suggesting is because you've got no evidence. I've suggested that he might not want to move his family for other genuine reasons (again, I've no idea and don't care), and you've not put forward any evidence to suggest otherwise. The reason I suggest your grasping is that you irrationally use McNeill as an example of commitment because he moved his family to Aberdeen. Yet he left after 11 months to join Celtic, because it was too big a job to turn down (stepping stone in other words). McInnes has been here for 4-5 years already, and there's a good chance he could last as long as Ferguson (8 years?). In this regard, you're either grasping, completely wrong, or are right but just haven't backed it up with any remotely useful evidence. I wasn't being harsh, provoking or anything else, I'd be interested in you proving me wrong.

The problem is, that by putting forward your argument about commitment so unconvincingly, then I question your argument about the supposed qualities that Lennon has that McInnes doesn't because you put forward zero evidence for those too. That Lennon is somehow a winner that just happened to get sacked by Bolton and Hibs and regularly loses to McInnes' AFC, but McInnes is a loser. I just don't buy it. Most importantly, I don't buy the extent to which it makes a difference, which is the most important bit for me*. Lennon might believe he can win the league, he might hate losing, he might even be a winner but the extent to which he can pass that to players who are not as good as those above them (like AFC) will always be limited, and the extent to which he can maintain that winning spirit with regularity in order to win a cup or league is massively in question.

*To me, your "winner" mentality is just another attribute in a series of attributes managers will/won't have. It's not nearly enough on its own. Where McInnes lacks a winning mentality (let's say), Lennon lacks in getting players to play for him and in self control (see the Hibs bust up). McInnes lacks in youth development and use of subs where Lennon lacks in concentration and organisation that sees him lose games he shouldn't. McGhee was undoubtedly a winner, but he had zero other attributes. I agree that AFC probably won't win the league without McInnes improving in those areas that he's deficient in. But I also think we're at least 6-7 good players short too (we need a squad to win the league). The extent to which a winners mentality has an effect is - in my opinion - negligible in terms of AFCs ability to win the league and, to me, is far too simplistic.

Offline rocket_scientist

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Re: Managers in Scotland
« Reply #550 on: February 26, 2019, 05:46:01 PM »
You're changing the subject, I clearly replied to - and quoted - the bit where you said he lacked commitment.

No I'm not. One of my two points was, and my opinion is and always has been, that he is using us to get somewhere else. And it's not going as he planned I would reckon too. I've no idea why he didn't relocate his family but it's not outwith the bounds of possibility that the two may be linked.

I didn't use Billy McNeill "irrationally" as you claim: -

If a manager seeks to use AFC as a stepping stone to somewhere else then of course he's not going to relocate his family. Billy McNeill relocated his family to the NE and they loved all it up here. It's a question of commitment. The manager Milne loves doesn't love us and he's not fucking good enough for AFC, let alone wherever his ego thinks he'll go.

I only said that IF a manager was to be using us as a stepping stone, of course he's not going to relocate his family. McNeill was relevant as he moved here and let's face it, any real man without issues would want to see his kids grow up.

As for your diatribe comparing Lennon to McInnes, you don't know what I'm talking about. I wouldn't want Lennon anywhere near Pittodrie given his bust-up at Hibs but he's still got what I want and expect in a leader of men, something sadly lacking in McInnes.

I don't need to put forward my argument "correctly". I'm entitled to hold the view that your manager, our manager, is a total charlatan loser and just because he's more competent that the other fucking clowns appointed by Milne, this doesn't negate or blind us to the reality of the situation.

It's fans accepting that McInnes is worth what we pay him that guarantees we have zero chance of winning the league. As I say, we disagree on his worth but worse, we don't even have the same aspirations for AFC, in your case whingeing and bitching that it's impossible to win the SPFL cos the game is rigged.
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Offline donsdaft

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Re: Managers in Scotland
« Reply #551 on: February 26, 2019, 06:25:42 PM »
Lennon is a fucking arsehole.

I'd ban him from Pittodrie as a visiting manager if I thought I'd get away with it.

He's a straight jacket and nut house job.

Offline rocket_scientist

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Re: Managers in Scotland
« Reply #552 on: February 26, 2019, 11:05:16 PM »
The Real Kashmir documentary was hilarious. Davie Robertson was a winner, the best LB I've ever seen at Pittodrie and in his role as manager, he's living up to his Psycho moniker. He's a dinosaur and the lament at the end about no offers coming in for him from Scotland ain't gonna change any year soon. But like Lennon and unlike McInnes, he had a great football career. He's like Lennon and unlike McInnes in many other respects too but unlike McInnes and even worse than Lennon, he's not the sharpest tool in the box. McInnes uses his sleekit bullshitness to carve a wage from a cunt of a chairman and we stupid fuckers have been facilitating it.
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Offline Jute

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Re: Managers in Scotland
« Reply #553 on: February 27, 2019, 12:51:13 AM »
The Real Kashmir documentary was hilarious. Davie Robertson was a winner, the best LB I've ever seen at Pittodrie and in his role as manager, he's living up to his Psycho moniker. He's a dinosaur and the lament at the end about no offers coming in for him from Scotland ain't gonna change any year soon. But like Lennon and unlike McInnes, he had a great football career. He's like Lennon and unlike McInnes in many other respects too but unlike McInnes and even worse than Lennon, he's not the sharpest tool in the box. McInnes uses his sleekit bullshitness to carve a wage from a cunt of a chairman and we stupid fuckers have been facilitating it.

Surprised any of his players could understand a word he was saying. Just swore at them constantly even when he was happy with them. Shame the political violence is possibly going to stop them winning the league with their next home game being shifted to a neutral venue in New Delhi. Looks a fascinating place to live and work if a bit dangerous.

Offline Ten Caat

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Re: Managers in Scotland
« Reply #554 on: February 27, 2019, 09:06:11 AM »
Absolute cunt of a man. I can understand guys like Dougie Bell, Stephen Wright and even the Rat signing for oldco/sevco directly from us as they all grew up as supporters of the Hun clubs but Robertson grew up a Dandy and knew exactly what signing for them would do to his reputation. It's not as if he didn't have other clubs after him either.....Leeds wanted him and had he chosen to go down south he would have left with our best wishes ( and would likely have had the option to return to us for 2 or 3 years at the back end of his career should he have wanted to). Signing for oldco meant he could never return.

I remember being at Dens Park the season before he left and heard a conversation between a couple of our fans, one of whom seemed to know him and his family. Rumours of oldco interest were gathering pace....this boy assured the other that there was not a cats chance in hell that he would ever sign for them. He obviously didn't know him that well...

Offline RicoS321

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Re: Managers in Scotland
« Reply #555 on: February 27, 2019, 09:57:01 AM »
The Real Kashmir documentary was hilarious. Davie Robertson was a winner, the best LB I've ever seen at Pittodrie and in his role as manager, he's living up to his Psycho moniker. He's a dinosaur and the lament at the end about no offers coming in for him from Scotland ain't gonna change any year soon. But like Lennon and unlike McInnes, he had a great football career. He's like Lennon and unlike McInnes in many other respects too but unlike McInnes and even worse than Lennon, he's not the sharpest tool in the box. McInnes uses his sleekit bullshitness to carve a wage from a cunt of a chairman and we stupid fuckers have been facilitating it.

McInnes had a very good playing career though. Not as good as Lennon or Robertson, but better than a hell of a lot of others. Captain of West Brom (to promotion from the championship and into the EPL), Arabs, Millwall* and St Johnstone. He was clearly a decent player and a leader on the pitch.


*With Nigel Spackman saying: "Every Millwall player on that pitch should be a Derek McInnes." when he signed him at age 34.